foul-travel-shot question

[hoopguy]

a1 drives to the basket and picks up his dribble in going for a layup. B1 fouls a1 by grabbing his arm. a1 shoots and scores but because b1 is holding him, he is unable to release the shot until after his pivot foot has lifted and then been placed on the ground again. What is the correct call and procedure? team a is not in penalty.





I would call holding foul, the shot does not count..... Not sure but I would award a1 two shots and call it a shooting foul.

this happened recently in a pick-up game and got me thinking...

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by hoopguy

a1 drives to the basket and picks up his dribble in going for a layup. B1 fouls a1 by grabbing his arm. a1 shoots and scores but because b1 is holding him, he is unable to release the shot until after his pivot foot has lifted and then been placed on the ground again. What is the correct call and procedure? team a is not in penalty.





I would call holding foul, the shot does not count..... Not sure but I would award a1 two shots and call it a shooting foul.

this happened recently in a pick-up game and got me thinking...

If he is fouled in the act of shooting, he gets two shots. Why would he not?
The travel caused the ball to be dead, so the basket cannot count.

[Ref_in_Alberta]

Originally Posted by hoopguy

a1 drives to the basket and picks up his dribble in going for a layup. B1 fouls a1 by grabbing his arm. a1 shoots and scores but because b1 is holding him, he is unable to release the shot until after his pivot foot has lifted and then been placed on the ground again. What is the correct call and procedure? team a is not in penalty.





I would call holding foul, the shot does not count..... Not sure but I would award a1 two shots and call it a shooting foul. (incorrect see below)

this happened recently in a pick-up game and got me thinking...

The question you need to ask is "When did the try for goal begin?"

It begins on the gather (when A1 picks up his dribble and starts his motion for the layup in your example). If he then scores you count the basket and award 1 FT. The fact the pivot returned to ground should not even be a factor here. The foul occurred first.

Hope this helps.

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by Ref_in_Alberta

The fact the pivot returned to ground should not even be a factor here. The foul occurred first.

I disagree here. If that's true then in theory: A1 could be fouled going up for a layup, not release and come back to the ground then shoot and make it and be awarded the basket plus one FT.

The pivot foot returning to the floor before the release ends the try. He was not able to get the shot off so the basket doesn't count. A1 receives two FTs for being fouled in the act of shooting, as HoopGuy originally stated.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Ref_in_Alberta

The question you need to ask is "When did the try for goal begin?"

It begins on the gather (when A1 picks up his dribble and starts his motion for the layup in your example). If he then scores you count the basket and award 1 FT. The fact the pivot returned to ground should not even be a factor here. The foul occurred first.

Hope this helps.

Actually, jar has it correct - the travel causes the ball to become dead, and the shot does not count.

You are correct in stating it is a shooting foul due to the gather to start the shooting motion. And, the reason a shot counts after a foul is because usually the ball does not become dead until after the try is either successful or unsuccessful (4-41-4). However, the travel violation causes the ball to become dead immediately (9-4 Penalty). Therefore, 2 shots will be awarded, even though the ball eventually went through the basket.

Look at it this way - as an extreme example, what if, after A1 was fouled while starting the shooting motion, A1 continued walking (literally 5-6 steps) towards the basket and eventually put it in, would you still count the basket?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by hoopguy

a1 drives to the basket and picks up his dribble in going for a layup. B1 fouls a1 by grabbing his arm. a1 shoots and scores but because b1 is holding him, he is unable to release the shot until after his pivot foot has lifted and then been placed on the ground again. What is the correct call and procedure? team a is not in penalty.

I would call holding foul, the shot does not count..... Not sure but I would award a1 two shots and call it a shooting foul.

this happened recently in a pick-up game and got me thinking...

Defintely 2 FTs, no basket.

Also if he held on that long, you could consider the foul to be intentional.

Originally Posted by Ref_in_Alberta

The question you need to ask is "When did the try for goal begin?"

It begins on the gather (when A1 picks up his dribble and starts his motion for the layup in your example). If he then scores you count the basket and award 1 FT. The fact the pivot returned to ground should not even be a factor here. The foul occurred first.

Hope this helps.

So he could jump, be fouled, return to the floor, shoot, score and syou would count the basket?

WRONG.

Two FTs.

[Back In The Saddle]

Follow on question...

How would you communicate the details of this situation? Everybody saw the foul; everybody saw the ball go in the basket. My bet is most people didn't see the travel because they were not watching the feet.

What do you signal at the spot? How would you clarify this for the coaches? How do you respond to the O coach's inevitable, "But the foul caused the travel."?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

How do you respond to the O coach's inevitable, "But the foul caused the travel."?

one word: irrelevant

[Nevadaref]

I know that we have discussed this play before.

I know that we have easily decided that the goal doesn't count due to the travel making the ball dead.

What I can't remember is if there was an NFHS case play or interp on this.

BillyMac is going to give me h#ll for that!