team control foul- rolling the ball

[mutantducky]

got this from watching the end of the celts game. for nfhs. Celts roll the inbound down the court and Rondo lets it roll. Alston dived for it.
Say Rondo had jumped in front of Alston or pushed him before he grabs the ball. Ref calls a foul on Rondo. (For NFHS) if in bonus shoot fts?

B. If the foul is on Alston I assume you shoot fts, checking on that one.

C. Does Rondo need to grab the ball first? If he somehow just touches the ball and commits a foul at the sametime does this change anything. Or if a teammate of Rondo fouls Alston as Rondo is touching but not controlling the ball.

[Nevadaref]

Answer these two questions and you will be able to answer all of the ones that you posed.

1. Under NFHS rules is there team control DURING a throw-in?

2. Does touching the ball inbounds establish player control? (Hint: what is the NFHS definition of player control?)

[JRutledge]

When is team control established? You must control the ball to start team control on a throw-in. So if a foul takes place before control is established, then you do not have a team control foul now do you?

Peace

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When is team control established? You must control the ball to start team control on a throw-in. So if a foul takes place before control is established, then you do not have a team control foul now do you?

That rule is so simple (Team control) that many officials do not understand.
The same 'looking' play can have different outcomes based upon team control.

[refguy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When is team control established? You must control the ball to start team control on a throw-in. So if a foul takes place before control is established, then you do not have a team control foul now do you?

Peace

NCAA - No free throws for Alston if Rondo fouls before the throw-in is touched. If he touches it and then fouls, free throws for Alston. Any foul by Alston before or after a touch would be free throws for Rondo. All assuming both teams are in the bonus.

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by refguy

NCAA - No free throws for Alston if Rondo fouls before the throw-in is touched. If he touches it and then fouls, free throws for Alston. Any foul by Alston before or after a touch would be free throws for Rondo. All assuming both teams are in the bonus.

please help!
I realize that in NCAA there is team control during a Throw-in. Does Team Control end when 'Team A' just touches the ball?
I thought Team Control for Team A ends when Team B controls the ball, there is an attempt for a try, or there is a whistle for a foul/violation.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by refguy

NCAA - No free throws for Alston if Rondo fouls before the throw-in is touched. If he touches it and then fouls, free throws for Alston. Any foul by Alston before or after a touch would be free throws for Rondo. All assuming both teams are in the bonus.

Originally Posted by Zoochy

please help!
I realize that in NCAA there is team control during a Throw-in. Does Team Control end when 'Team A' just touches the ball?
I thought Team Control for Team A ends when Team B controls the ball, there is an attempt for a try, or there is a whistle for a foul/violation.

Refguy's post doesn't seem correct to me either. However, I can't find anything concrete either way.

I merely know that the NCAA rule regarding how team control ends is the same as the HS rule. So once the ball is put at the disposal of the thrower team control commences and it shouldn't end until a try is in flight, the opponent gains control, or the ball becomes dead.

The NCAA Casebook contains this play, which is the best ruling that I could find, but isn't crystal clear.

A.R. 149. During an alternating-possession throw-in by Team A:
(1) A3 fouled B3 after the throw-in pass was touched by A2; or
(2) A3 fouled B3 when the ball was at the disposal of A1 for a
throw-in.
RULING: (1) The alternating-possession arrow shall be reversed
immediately when the throw-in pass was legally touched by A2. A3
committed a team-control foul and the ball shall be awarded to Team
B at a designated spot.
(2) A3 has committed a team-control foul and the ball shall be
awarded to Team B at a designated spot. Team A retains the arrow
since a throw-in did not touch or was not legally touched by an
inbounds player.
(Rule 6-3.2, 7-4.1.f, 4-15.2.c and 7-5.5)

[BillyMac]

SECTION 12 CONTROL, PLAYER AND TEAM
ART. 1 A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. There is no player control when, during a jump ball, a jumper catches the ball prior to the ball touching the floor or a non-jumper, or during an interrupted dribble.
ART. 2 A team is in control of the ball:
a. When a player of the team is in control.
b. While a live ball is being passed among teammates.
c. During an interrupted dribble.
ART. 3 Team control continues until:
a. The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.
b. An opponent secures control.
c. The ball becomes dead.
ART. 4 While the ball remains live a loose ball always remains in control of the team whose player last had control, unless it is a try or tap for goal.
ART. 5 Team control does not exist during a jump ball or the touching of a rebound, but is re-established when a player secures control.
ART. 6 Neither team control nor player control exists during a dead ball, throw-in, a jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.