Lifting pivot foot

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by LDUB

That is not correct. The violation is not for lifting the pivot foot. The violation is for starting a dribble after the pivot foot is lifted. Using your logic you could say lifting the pivot foot is a violation but is just isn't called until the pivot foot is returned to the floor. In both situations lifting the pivot foot is not a violation; what occurs after the pivot foot is lifted is the violation.

Then I guess the rule book is wrong, since that's were I quoted from.

The violation occurs because the pivot foot was moved outside prescribed limits.

Originally Posted by eg-italy

It's already a violation. If you end the dribble with a foot in the frontcourt the ball has frontcourt status, because when the dribble has ended the "three point rule" doesn't hold any more; putting down the other foot in the backcourt is a violation.

So if a dribbler ends his dribble while straddling the division line, it's a violation in FEEBLE Rules? That's just stupid.

I know what I'm talking about. I believe that case would be a violation also under Fed rules.

No, you don't and no it isn't. Under NFHS, when dribbling, a player is not in the FC until all three points are in the FC.

Me thinks you have your FC and BC status mixed up.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Then I guess the rule book is wrong, since that's were I quoted from.

The violation occurs because the pivot foot was moved outside prescribed limits.

Put it in this way: is there any situation when the official calls a travel just because a player lifts their pivot foot? I can't see any. (And that was the original question.) I quote again from you:

Lifting the pivot foot and then starting a dribble is a traveling violation.

Does the violation come from lifting the pivot foot? No: it's a consequence of something done after that.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

So if a dribbler ends his dribble while straddling the division line, it's a violation in FEEBLE Rules? That's just stupid.

That's your reading of my message. There's no such rule in FIBA and a player can be straddling the division line without violating. All the rule say is that this player is both in the BC and the FC (and it's cause of problems, in my opinion, but that's not the question). This player can lift the foot in the BC, but not the foot in the FC. There are three cases: (1) the pivot foot has not been established by the rules (stationary player receiving the ball, or who has put both feet simultaneously on the ground); (2) the pivot foot has been established by the rules; (3) no foot can be pivot (jump stop).

In case (2) the foot in the FC can never be pivot, because when the pivot foot is established by the rule the player has ended their dribble; if the pivot foot is in the FC, putting down the other foot in the BC is a violation, because the ball has already FC status.

In all cases the player can lift the foot in the BC, be it the pivot or not; of course, a dribble can no more be started if that foot was pivot.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Under NFHS, when dribbling, a player is not in the FC until all three points are in the FC.

Me thinks you have your FC and BC status mixed up.

Is a player a dribbler when they have ended their dribble? I dare say no. If the dribble ends when the player has their right foot in the frontcourt and their left foot in the air, are you sure the three point rule is still in force?

Ciao

[JugglingReferee]

Understanding FIBA backcourt rules are not easily done.

And certainly not within one message thread.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Then I guess the rule book is wrong, since that's were I quoted from.

I guess the person doing the quoting is unable to see what he is quoting has nothing to do with the question that was asked.

Is lifting the pivot foot a violation? No, it is not.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by LDUB

I guess the person doing the quoting is unable to see what he is quoting has nothing to do with the question that was asked.

Is lifting the pivot foot a violation? No, it is not.

Well, I'll have to admit this is kind of an interesting discussion, in that I've never heard the question asked that way.

So 4-44-3(c) says: "After...establishing a pivot foot...the pivot foot may not be lifted before the ball is released to start a dribble."

So, yes, in this case lifting the pivot foot is a violation...if it preceeds the start of a dribble.

We know that lifting the pivot foot is allowed if the player passes or shoots. So there is no direct yes or no answer to the original question; the correct answer is "it depends on what happens immediately after".