Shot clock violation in Pitt-Xavier Game

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

On some clocks that's true. On some it's not.

At least according to a lenghty explanation given on eofficials in discussing the answer to one of this season's NCAAW quiz questions.

Frankly, I think there's way too much review. Lots of calls happen (or don't happen) during a game -- the teams need to "overcome" those calls.

Only calls that happen at the end of the game (and I admit it's tough to come up with a specific definition of this), where the team doesn't have a chance to "overcome" it should be allowed.

If it's not true for all clocks, then shouldn't an effort be made to make it true or not true for all clocks?

There is alot of review, and this is a debate that could go on for days, so I'll just throw in my 2 cents now. There is alot of review, in all sports. Even baseball has succumbed to reviewing a certain play. Some don't like how much review there is. But there's an increasing desire to get the calls right. If you have the technology, why not review it and make sure you get the correct call? That way, you don't have people wondering, "what if?". You know you've got the right call, and you can move on.

[bradfordwilkins]

Originally Posted by bas2456

If it's not true for all clocks, then shouldn't an effort be made to make it true or not true for all clocks?

There is alot of review, and this is a debate that could go on for days, so I'll just throw in my 2 cents now. There is alot of review, in all sports. Even baseball has succumbed to reviewing a certain play. Some don't like how much review there is. But there's an increasing desire to get the calls right. If you have the technology, why not review it and make sure you get the correct call? That way, you don't have people wondering, "what if?". You know you've got the right call, and you can move on.

Where does it stop though? Pretty soon we'll just be referees who have earpieces to the TV truck where the officials will tell us when to blow whistles lol

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bas2456

If it's not true for all clocks, then shouldn't an effort be made to make it true or not true for all clocks?

You might be able to get away with this at the NBA level, but not anywhere else. There's no way to regulate how clocks are manufactured. At the NBA level, with a limited number of venues, they could enforce this. College? Doubtful.

High school? Not a chance.

Violations should not be reviewable. You gonna add whether or not he stepped on the line to the list of reviewable plays?

[rulesmaven]

An interesting point that is not really directly responsive to the question here, but it's about the game and shot clocks in NCAA.

The game clock usually shows less time on the clock than there really is in the game, until zero. The shot clock shows more time than is usually on the shot clock.

For example, when the game clock shows 11:11, there is really MORE than (or exactly equal to) 11:11 on the clock -- maybe as much as .99 seconds. The best way to see this visually is at the beginning of the game, when the clock ticks from 20:00 to 19:59 immediately, not in one second. You see it again when the clock goes to tenths of a second. The clock lingers on 1:00 for a full second before showing 59.9. The reason is that while the clock is showing 1:00, the amount of time left is really between 1:01 and 1:00. In other words, the game clock is always rounding down to the nearest second (or in the last minute to the nearest tenth).

The shot clock is different. You don't see the second tick off UNTIL the second is actually expired. So, unlike the game clock, when the shot clock is started, it takes a full second before it goes from 35 to 34. This is why, for example, you can see the odd situation where the game clock shows 34.5, but the shot clock still shows 35. It seems the shot clock should be off at the point, but not really. The true time left on the shot clock might really only be 34.2, even though it shows 35, because it doesn't tick down to 34 until it gets to 34.

Very long winded way of saying that the shot clock horn should always be simultaneous with 0, because as soon as it says zero, there is no more time in the 35 seconds.

[pizanno]

Originally Posted by rulesmaven

This is why, for example, you can see the odd situation where the game clock shows 34.5, but the shot clock still shows 35. It seems the shot clock should be off at the point, but not really. The true time left on the shot clock might really only be 34.2, even though it shows 35, because it doesn't tick down to 34 until it gets to 34.

Very long winded way of saying that the shot clock horn should always be simultaneous with 0, because as soon as it says zero, there is no more time in the 35 seconds.

As Bob Jenkins referenced, the NCAAW quiz had a question on this that caused so much discussion, they posted a bulletin that said (paraphrasing) by rule, you must turn the shot clock off when time exceeds game clock (REGARDLESS of your "knowledge" or logic.)

They don't state a reasoning, but it's likely because not all shot clocks operate the same (different manufacturers).

The most obvious solution will be to include tenths of seconds on shot clocks, but it may not happen for quite a while.

We discussed this here:

Any engineers on board? Zero on the shot clock, no horn

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by pizanno

They don't state a reasoning, but it's likely because not all shot clocks operate the same (different manufacturers).

Bingo.

As an example, I've worked at two different D-I schools, each of which has the shot clock set to automatically turn off when there is less time on the game clock than on the shot clock. At one school, the shot clock turns off when there are 35.9 seconds on the clock, at another, it doesn't turn off until 35.0.