Article pointing finger at Racist Referees

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

When my daughter was playing, there was a game where the refs clearly were planning for my daughter's (mostly black) team not to win. This decision was probably based on race, although it may not have been.

So you are accusing the officials of cheating....and you are saying they were cheating because they were racists

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by LDUB

So you are accusing the officials of cheating....and you are saying they were cheating because they were racists

Yes, I am saying that. They were heard talking about it, and it was reported. I could give you a reference to a person (highly respected and trusted in the Oregon reffing community) who will tell you that that is exactly what happened.

However, I'm not agreeing with the person who wrote the article cited in the OP. There are biased refs, and there are bad calls made on the basis of racial prejudice. It happens. We on this board who try as hard as we can to do a great job, tend to forget that there are the lowlifes out there who don't have the best possible attitude.

And Jeff is right that the best way to avoid the appearance would be to work to actively move the best refs of color up to the various levels in all associations and in all areas. (I'd say the same thing for female refs, but that's another subject).

Still, it does "the cause" no good for someone to write an article blaming the loss of one game on the fact that all three refs were white. And then to claim that it's a pattern that ruins the dreams of kids. That's just baloney.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

... the best way to avoid the appearance would be to work to actively move the best refs of color up to the various levels in all associations and in all areas. (I'd say the same thing for female refs, but that's another subject).

By what measure? Ability compared to all others? Or just race/gender? If the later, isn't that the problem that we're trying to eliminate? Or is discrimination only bad in one direction? Simply put, advancment/promotion based on anything aside from simple ability wthout regard to race/gender is morally and ethically wrong.

Also, I don't see any calls for requiring teams' rosters or starting lineups to match the demographics of the student bodies they they represent (HS and College) or the cities/regions they represent (Pro). If we're going demand equal numbers based on any demograhic stats, shouldn't that apply uniformly? And, NO, I don't think it should....teams should be able to select the best players from their available pool.

[tomegun]

I have circled the country and know many officials. I can say for sure that racism is part of this business and the best refs do not always get promoted. I know black, Asian and Hispanic officials who are held down. Does someone come out and say it is because of race? No. But some things do not need to be spoken. I can say with 100% certainty that the officials working the tournament today are not all going to be the best but they are there.

My last job in the military had me in charge of 600 young men and women. I was accused of being racist. The funny thing is that it came from whites then later from blacks. I guess I was an equal opportunity prick. I get
joy out of being fair regardless of race.

The officials we watch today will be confident and they will seem right the majority of the time. The only problem with that is they aren't automatically right because they are considered a big dog or wwhatever.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I have circled the country and know many officials. I can say for sure that racism is part of this business and the best refs do not always get promoted. I know black, Asian and Hispanic officials who are held down.
.

I freely admit that I have NOT travelled the country like you have, Tom. Having said that, in your travels have you ever seen black, Asian, Hispanic, or female refs who have been promoted because of their race/gender/minority status???

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I freely admit that I have NOT travelled the country like you have, Tom. Having said that, in your travels have you ever seen black, Asian, Hispanic, or female refs who have been promoted because of their race/gender/minority status???

And, have you (tomegun) surveyed for how many white refs that feel they don't get the level of games they think they deserve? (without connecting it to a reason....not because of race...just that they feel they don't get the assignments).

What it comes down to is that MOST refs of all demographic groups feel they don't get the games they deserve...that they are held down. Some chose to blame it on racism, some on gender, some on politics, some on the man in the moon.

Refs, as a group, and as part being able to do the job at all, must have a bit of an ego and must believe they're good. Most of the ones that don't have an strong ego either don't get into officiating or crash and drop out in 1-2 years.

Surveys have often shown that about 80% of the surveyed group think that thier abilities are above average....and simple math shows that at least 30% of the group is simply wrong (some of those that think they are average or below may be in the above average group...making the percentage that are wrong even higher)....and many of those that are above average may not be as far above average as they think.

The fact is that there are only so many preferred games to be worked and a lot more less than preferred games. The numbers just don't support a lot of people getting the top games....not matter who they are. When the refs don't get there, many look for excuses rather than reasons....and I see that attitude just as much in white males as any group.

[Mark Padgett]

What is most disheartening is that people still have preconceived notions about something they refer to as "race". The genome project proved scientifically there is no such thing as far as science is concerned. What humans share is commonality of genetic tagging. For example, genetically, being a white male I share more genetic traits with a black male than I do with a white female. This fact throws the concept of "race" right out the window. Eventually, (I hope) it will finally be accepted by everyone that human beings are just that - human beings - and should be judged as individuals based on their behavior.

Of course, I'm not holding my breath until that happens.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I freely admit that I have NOT travelled the country like you have, Tom. Having said that, in your travels have you ever seen black, Asian, Hispanic, or female refs who have been promoted because of their race/gender/minority status???

Of course there have been. I have heard straight from a NCAA-W supervisor's mouth that they were looking for "African-American females".

But then you have to look at why. The numbers hired will never approach those who have been held back because of those same demographics. That is just a fact of life. It's why I chuckle when I hear complaints about affirmative-action. The number of people specifically hired/promoted through affimative-action policies will never, ever approach the number people who have been held back because of institutional and personal discrimination.

[refguy]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I freely admit that I have NOT travelled the country like you have, Tom. Having said that, in your travels have you ever seen black, Asian, Hispanic, or female refs who have been promoted because of their race/gender/minority status???

I have. Similar to Jeff's observations about playoffs in his area, there are people who get games because of a perceived need to have racial or gender balance in a crew for certain games. I have actually been told directly, "We need 2 women and and one male on this game." I have seen it as well, especially regarding gender in advancement in girls and women's basketball. There simply aren't enough women coming into officiating every year to fill the perceived need to have women officiating women. And I say "perceived need" because I have yet to talk to one single coach that prefers women to men officiating their game; they don't like officials doing their games that are not ready or not good enough on ability, they just want the best. I have seen often where they get rated vs. each other for advancement and not vs. the entire pool of available talent.
Unscientifically, I would say that the percentage of female officials in any high school association is 10-20% at best. Therefore, there will be more qualified males than females available for promotion. And yet there are cases of women advancing more quickly, not because they are the best available, but because they stand out when compared with the available pool of female officials.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I freely admit that I have NOT travelled the country like you have, Tom. Having said that, in your travels have you ever seen black, Asian, Hispanic, or female refs who have been promoted because of their race/gender/minority status???

I only need to turn on the TV and watch our state tournaments to see examples of that every year. And it does a great disservice to those females/minorities who do deserve the assignments.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

And Jeff is right that the best way to avoid the appearance would be to work to actively move the best refs of color up to the various levels in all associations and in all areas. (I'd say the same thing for female refs, but that's another subject).

So the best way to avoid the appearance of racism is to engage is some ourselves?

An interesting theory.

How about we just move the best refs up, and ignore their "race" entirely?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Berkut

So the best way to avoid the appearance of racism is to engage is some ourselves?

An interesting theory.

How about we just move the best refs up, and ignore their "race" entirely?

What do we do with ones who already moved up who shouldn't have?