Spin Move are traveling violations

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I clearly do not understand this statement, because it is meaningless.

Obviously that is the case when you compared what they do at their level to your level.

NEWSFLASH!!!!

Evaluators are not spending hours talking about every little travel that took place or that is missed. This is not the NBA we are talking about where the NBA actually goes over every play and every call and non-call in a game.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Obviously that is the case when you compared what they do at their level to your level.

NEWSFLASH!!!!

Evaluators are not spending hours talking about every little travel that took place or that is missed. This is not the NBA we are talking about where the NBA actually goes over every play and every call and non-call in a game.

Peace

Rut is right. The officials in Div 1 basketball are independent contractors and on the road almost everyday, so they don't have the time to sit down with the assignor every week, and analyze the tapes like the NBA officials. The NBA officials are employees who have to meet with their boss every week and go through the tapes. The only thing that can happen at Div 1 level, is a school could send a tape into the conference assignor with specific "concerns" on which the assignor will take a look at, and if there is any issue, then the assignor will contact the official(s) and have a discussion regarding it.

[refguy]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Rut is right. The officials in Div 1 basketball are independent contractors and on the road almost everyday, so they don't have the time to sit down with the assignor every week, and analyze the tapes like the NBA officials. The NBA officials are employees who have to meet with their boss every week and go through the tapes. The only thing that can happen at Div 1 level, is a school could send a tape into the conference assignor with specific "concerns" on which the assignor will take a look at, and if there is any issue, then the assignor will contact the official(s) and have a discussion regarding it.

All these officials are provided dvd's after every single game they do. Supervisors ask that they review their games. The problem is as stated above: they do too many games and don't take the time to review tape and get better. I had multiple partners this year gripe about waiting for the dvd after the game because "I ain't watching it anyway." Most coaches will say players improve more during practice than during the game. Is it any different for officials? These guys are working more games in a shorter period than NBA guys and gal where it's their job. Then in the off-season are they breaking down film of their games? Or are they busy catching up with their job they haven't been to for 4 months? Or are they at camps as observers busy working on other people's game instead of their own?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by refguy

All these officials are provided dvd's after every single game they do. Supervisors ask that they review their games.

So if they review and see 40 of these spin moves, and see that 37 of them are travels, it seems that they might call one a travel eventually.

Unless they have been told to ignore travels in certain situations. The (non) call on this play is very consistent. But if there is a rule which will never be enforced, whether it be traveling or shirt tails, it should be changed in the books.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by refguy

All these officials are provided dvd's after every single game they do. Supervisors ask that they review their games. The problem is as stated above: they do too many games and don't take the time to review tape and get better. I had multiple partners this year gripe about waiting for the dvd after the game because "I ain't watching it anyway." Most coaches will say players improve more during practice than during the game. Is it any different for officials? These guys are working more games in a shorter period than NBA guys and gal where it's their job. Then in the off-season are they breaking down film of their games? Or are they busy catching up with their job they haven't been to for 4 months? Or are they at camps as observers busy working on other people's game instead of their own?

I am sure that if an official wants a copy of a game it is not hard to get, but to say all of them have DVDs for games is not really accurate. Some conferences have games online on a secure website. And I would not suggest that many of them decide not to watch tape. I am sure just like anything in life you have people that care and others that do not care. All individuals that work that level are not employed the same way either. Some run their own businesses or their in sales where travel is already apart of their job. And not everyone is working 100 games a season either.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Worked the semi-finals for a men's league in a town near me. Most of the guys are ex-college guys. I am happy to report that I called a bunch of spin-move travels. Somewhere around 10 in 2 games. One player admitted to me that their team will steal some moves from watching TV.

In each case, the ball had to be released before the pivot re-planted to the floor in the middle of the key, but they weren't. Tweet.

[Bad Zebra]

I have reviewed each spin move that has taken place thus far in the UConn/Mizzou and Nova/Pitt games. I have a DVR and a remote capable of pausing and frame by frame advance in real time.

Four spin moves so far today and each one appears to be a travel. It's pretty easy to spot using this technology, but I have to admit I've always laid off them in HS ball. That may very well change next season.

I've noticed another factor that may be affecting how it's called...the move almost always takes place in heavy traffic. Even the TV cameras are screened pretty well in that it's difficult to see the feet of the spinning player through the whole play.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

I've noticed another factor that may be affecting how it's called...the move almost always takes place in heavy traffic. Even the TV cameras are screened pretty well in that it's difficult to see the feet of the spinning player through the whole play.

I think this is the reason it is called the way it is. If you are not sure you do not call it. And you really do not call it in this situation with all the cameras and you are not sure.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

NEWSFLASH!!!!

Evaluators are not spending hours talking about every little travel that took place or that is missed.

Originally Posted by refguy

John Adams this year has been exasperated by official's failure to call traveling well at all. Direct quote:

I'm not sure what our problem with traveling is. I believe most Division I
referees can recite the rule and understand it so I am left with the assumption that they don't get in good position to see the whole play start, develop, and finish. Remember, the trail official can help with travels in the low post!

That makes two of us, John.