Uniform T in 1-point state semifinal loss

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Now that's stating the obvious.

Seems that Kurt from your state office cares.

He cared, but he did not care enough to make an issue out of this the entire year. He enforced a rule after telling the school in question several times to correct it.

BTW, that crew that had them at the level before the State Finals and in the first game of the State Finals went on to work the best game of the weekend. It must not have mattered that much that they did not accurately enforce the rules.

Peace

[26 Year Gap]

In Vermont, schools got waivers on the uniforms prior to the season [a couple still had gold home uniforms, but one school had a band of contrasting color for the school name on the front] and the officiating association was made aware before the season. The schools are aware that new uniforms are needed and the reasons for non-compliance.

It sounds like the school was made aware and they probably could have refused payment on the new ones delivered that were also illegal. If the officiating crew was instructed to issue the technical foul, then they simply were enforcing the rule. The school did the team members a disservice by not correcting the problem EVEN THOUGH THEY APPARENTLY WERE FULLY AWARE OF THE PROBLEM.

Consider the dead horse here thoroughly beaten.

I don't understand why the school wasted their time in getting the proper uniform. The FED put this rule change in a few years ago (maybe not THAT many but seems so) to give schools time to budget for this. Nebraska and Iowa kept hammering that fact to the coaches every year at the rules meetings even if it became redundant to hear it.

On another note, why don't the FED allow these kinds of stripes? Just another freaking example of making us officials the freaking fashion police, and bad enough some of us have no sense of fashion (or so I've been told!).

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

I don't understand why the school wasted their time in getting the proper uniform. The FED put this rule change in a few years ago (maybe not THAT many but seems so) to give schools time to budget for this. Nebraska and Iowa kept hammering that fact to the coaches every year at the rules meetings even if it became redundant to hear it.

On another note, why don't the FED allow these kinds of stripes? Just another freaking example of making us officials the freaking fashion police, and bad enough some of us have no sense of fashion (or so I've been told!).

I don't get it either. What's wrong with all white unis except numbers, names and school names?

[ODJ]

Just saw an undated photo of North Lawndale uniform. Orange jersey, player wearing black undershirt. Oy, vey.

[grunewar]

An update on the subject with some more interesting comments....from Mary Struckhoff

Rivals High - Illegal uniforms cost team in playoff loss

[Adam]

I found this part interesting. Not sure if it's good or bad, but it's interesting.

Struckhoff said the national federation began emphasizing uniform regulations two years ago at the behest of manufacturers, who said coaches were insisting on purchasing illegal uniforms because the rules were rarely enforced.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by ODJ

Just saw an undated photo of North Lawndale uniform. Orange jersey, player wearing black undershirt. Oy, vey.

Maybe it was during warmup before the official advised him he would need to remove it outside of the gym confines if he wanted to play.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Isn't the "P" with the gold / yellow star in it also illegal?

Originally Posted by LocDog249

According to this yes, the star is also illegal. It says it must be directly above the number. However, it does not state how many colors can be used in the name of the school. It says the torso must be a single solid color and that the number may contain 3 colors.

I'm going to disagree. It seems to me that according to the rules and the NFHS pdf document the star in the P is perfectly legal. The pdf doesn't state what you claim.

From the NFHS pdf document:

"Any form of decorative accent (i.e., paw, halo, crown, star, etc.) in a
name or abbreviation is only permitted above the number."

Basically the same as 3-4-4e in the rules book:
"Any form of decorative accent (e.g., paw, halo, crown, star) in an
identifying name or abbreviation is only permitted if the name or
abbreviation is located above the number."

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yes, they should know them, Billy, but it's not their job to be compliant. It's their job to make cool looking uniforms that sell. The ones who buy the uniforms should know the rules.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I disagree. If you're a uniform manufacturer, you should be aware of what the rules are and you should make legal uniforms based on who you're selling them to.

Gotta disagree with ya there, Tony.

With them selling to multiple leagues, conferences, etc., I'd say it's "buyer beware."

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'm going to disagree. It seems to me that according to the rules and the NFHS pdf document the star in the P is perfectly legal. The pdf doesn't state what you claim.

From the NFHS pdf document:

"Any form of decorative accent (i.e., paw, halo, crown, star, etc.) in a
name or abbreviation is only permitted above the number."

Basically the same as 3-4-4e in the rules book:
"Any form of decorative accent (e.g., paw, halo, crown, star) in an
identifying name or abbreviation is only permitted if the name or
abbreviation is located above the number."

I agree. This rule prevents decorations in/on numbers and below numbers. If schools turn their school name into a logo, then by this rule at least that's legal.

I surmise that the purpose of this rule is to keep the numbers plainly visible and in the proper position on the uniform.

[QUOTE]Mary Struckhoff, NFSHSA national interpreter for basketball rules and rules editor, said the regulations have not changed in the 10 years she has worked for the association, and they exist for a reason: "Quick recognition, sanctity of the number."

She said opponents, referees and scorekeepers must be able to identify a player quickly, often by using the number. Certain uniform designs could obscure it.

"We have very specific guidelines, and once you say, well, four inches could really be five inches, then five inches could really be six, and what difference does it make?" Struckhoff said. "So, so to speak and pardon the pun, where do you draw the line? Four inches is four inches." [QUOTE]

If you look at the uniforms we've been talking about, quick recognition wouldn't seem to be a problem.

If you leave these guidelines in, yet modify to allow for the stripes as was penalized, you won't have problems.

Again, it's time the FED stop making us the freaking fashion police. Pretty soon we're going to have freaking points of emphasis that have nothing to do with the actual playing of the game because we'll be so freaking tuned into what's illegal to wear, etc. I actually timed our rules meeting this past season (back in November) and it lasted for about 45 minutes. The presenter from the state office spent about 15 of that talking about uniforms. Ridiculous. Rant off, soapbox stored (at least till the rules committee convenes).

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Gotta disagree with ya there, Tony.

With them selling to multiple leagues, conferences, etc., I'd say it's "buyer beware."

And then, there are AAU uniforms....

[falsecut]

The IHSA posted their comments on their web site:

IHSA - Announcements

[DonInKansas]

A quote from the above link:

"Hickman closed by saying, “We feel that too much emphasis is being placed on this one call. In any close contest, there are going to be a number of plays that factor into the final outcome. Both teams had opportunities to win this game and the technical foul played no more of a role than dozens of other made shots, missed shots, turnovers and fouls that occurred throughout the contest. The unprecedented emphasis on this one call detracts from the tremendous effort given by Champaign Centennial and North Lawndale.”

That about wraps it up right there. Make one more shot, and yer unis don't matter.