backcourt front court violation

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes, it is a violation.

A was the last to touch the ball when A2 grabbed the ball in the air, still in the FC.

The play is no different from B1 tipping a pass from FC A1 that deflects off of FC A2 into the BC where A2 recovers.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Who was the last to touch the ball "before" it got BC status? B1.
It's different than your play since in your play, A2 is the last to touch it before it goes to the BC.

Always listen to bob.

Snaq, I think you're thinking about the case where A2 has already established themselves to be in the BC when they obtain possession of the ball (that has yet to hit the BC).

[Adam]

Consider this play and tell me how it differs, please.

A1 dribbling in BC, loses control and the ball bounces off the leg of B1, standing in the FC, and into the BC where A1 is standing when he picks it up. Is this a violation? Does it matter if A1 is picks it up before it hits the floor in the BC.

edit: I see it now. I don't know what my problem is.

violation

[mick]

Originally Posted by Peach State Ref

This play got me to thinking about various other scenarios. Play B: A-1 is in the backcourt and passes the ball to A-2. B-1 is standing in the frontcourt and tips the pass into the air near the division line. A-2 jumps from the frontcourt, catches the tipped ball in the air, and lands in the backcourt. Violation or not? Why or why not?

Originally Posted by zm1283

I'd say no because Team A never had team control in the frontcourt. B's player was the last to touch before it went to the backcourt. However, if A caught it before it hit the floor, does it still have frontcourt status until it hits the floor?

I still say no BC violation here.

Rethink this:

Team A never lost team control; they had it in the backcourt and maintained it. B's bat does not change team control
A2 caught the ball while having frontcourt location.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

By rule, this is not a violation. The requirements are not met:
1. Team control by A.
2. Ball gains front court status (when tipped by B).
3. A is not the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt.
4. A2 is the first to touch the ball with BC status.

What is missing is that part where team A is the last to touch the ball "before" it gains backcourt status.

The recent NFHS interp, however, essentially states that #3 and #4 can happen at the same time.

Now, if the ball had hit another A player rather than B1 and then bounced into the BC, it's a violation.

Originally Posted by mick

Rethink this:

Team A never lost team control; they had it in the backcourt and maintained it. B's bat does not change team control
A2 caught the ball while having frontcourt location.

What do you say to the post above by Snaqwells then?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by zm1283

What do you say to the post above by Snaqwells then?

I had a different play in my head. Mick's right (see my edited post above), this is a violation. For some reason, I didn't see that A had jumped from the FC, caught the ball, and landed in the BC.

This is always a violation, except in very specific circumstances which do not apply here.

With the play in question, #2 is met when A2 catches the ball with FC status. B1's tip is irrelevant.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I had a different play in my head. Mick's right (see my edited post above), this is a violation. For some reason, I didn't see that A had jumped from the FC, caught the ball, and landed in the BC.

This is always a violation, except in very specific circumstances which do not apply here.

With the play in question, #2 is met when A2 catches the ball with FC status. B1's tip is irrelevant.

You're right. After I read it again and read mick's post, I agree. A's player who caught it in the air was the last to touch in the FC with team control and first to touch in the backcourt. It's a violation.

[Adam]

I'm going to blame the El Paso water and coffee. You can find your own excuse.

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm going to blame the El Paso water and coffee. You can find your own excuse.

You ignored the #1 rule on this board, always listen to Bob!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

You ignored the #1 rule on this board, always listen to Bob!

I knew I had it wrong, just couldn't figure it out. I may admit when I'm wrong, but not until I know why.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

How is that different than what he said?

"A player's location on the court, when airborne, is determined by the point of departure."

The last place you touched is your point of departure.

An airborne player might touch the floor between jumping and landing, and that player's location would be where he or she last touched the floor, not the point of departure. I've seen it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

An airborne player might touch the floor between jumping and landing,

Huh?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbyron

An airborne player might touch the floor between jumping and landing, and that player's location would be where he or she last touched the floor, not the point of departure. I've seen it.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Huh?

I'm with Bob. Once an airborne player touches the floor, he's no longer airborne. If, by some fluke of gravity, he is, then his point of departure has changed.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by mbyron

An airborne player might touch the floor between jumping and landing, and that player's location would be where he or she last touched the floor, not the point of departure. I've seen it.

A player jumps. That's his point of departure, where he left the floor.

When he next touches the floor, he's landed. He can't land twice.

This ain't the triple jump.

[mbyron]

You're all assuming the player touches the floor with a foot, right?

[Adam]

is right. Once he touches the floor with "anything," he's no longer airborne; but if he touches the floor with a hand and still manages to catch the ball before his feet hit the floor, I'm tempted to let him do whatever he wants with it after that.