Signal the '3' then wave it off......

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not see the problem. The signal for the shot is about where he is leaving the floor to shoot the shot. If the player does not get the shot off, then you waive it off. The two signals are not one in the same or they are not directly related. You are not counting the basket, then waiving off the shot.

Peace

I disagree with this logic, especially when both signals come from the same official.

I never signal a three-point attempt until the ball has been released from the shooters' hands. Because an attempt is not an attempt unless it is released before the buzzer, the covering official knows for certain that if successful, the goal will count. If it won't count, there is no need to signal that the shot was from outside some curve on the court, as it this shot contains no information that is useful to someone.

I will never be seen signalling a 3-point attempt, only to waive off the shot because it came after the clock buzzed.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I disagree with this logic, especially when both signals come from the same official.

I never signal a three-point attempt until the ball has been released from the shooters' hands. Because an attempt is not an attempt unless it is released before the buzzer, the covering official knows for certain that if successful, the goal will count. If it won't count, there is no need to signal that the shot was from outside some curve on the court, as it this shot contains no information that is useful to someone.

I will never be seen signalling a 3-point attempt, only to waive off the shot because it came after the clock buzzed.

Well that is you and that is fine with me. I am just saying that I am looking at the feet when they alight for the floor. I rarely see players shoot the ball when they are jumping from behind the line. The shot going off has nothing to do with the signal. All you are signaling is the attempt, you are not signaling a counted basket.

If anything this is a very rare situation in the first place and not at all a big deal. It is not unusual to see people here get all worried about a situation that in real life I have never heard anyone complain about.

Peace

[GoodwillRef]

The Center official "marks" the three point shot as soon as the player's feet leave the floor (the ball is still in his hands)...I like to wait until the player has returned to the floor to "mark" the three point attempt...this helps me bring the shooter back to the floor safely. It also eliminated "marking" a three point attempt and then have the shooter pass the ball.

[Kelvin green]

My opinion waiting to mark the three until he comes back to the floor is going to be way late and cause more problems than waiting

The kid gets fouled and you have not marked it as a three, you are going to have a hard time selling something. (If he is back on the floor; he no longer is in shooting motion)...

I signal the three as he is going up (signals that he is in act of shooting) so if he gets foued, it's easy to know it was a three...

In this play (no sound) why does the official administering the FT take so long to put ball in play? it also looks like he put his whistle in his mouth and turned head and blew it... Was this after a TO and does IN do the whistle mechanic on FT's?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

My opinion waiting to mark the three until he comes back to the floor is going to be way late and cause more problems than waiting

The kid gets fouled and you have not marked it as a three, you are going to have a hard time selling something. (If he is back on the floor; he no longer is in shooting motion)...

I signal the three as he is going up (signals that he is in act of shooting) so if he gets foued, it's easy to know it was a three...

This is exactly why I signal when I do. This is a great point about the fouled shooter and not waiting until the player hits the floor.

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

The kid gets fouled and you have not marked it as a three, you are going to have a hard time selling something. (If he is back on the floor; he no longer is in shooting motion)...

I signal the three as he is going up (signals that he is in act of shooting) so if he gets foued, it's easy to know it was a three...

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is exactly why I signal when I do. This is a great point about the fouled shooter and not waiting until the player hits the floor.

Peace

I agree with this. If you don't have the "3" up when the kid gets fouled, it's going to be harder (though obviously not impossible) to convince anyone that it should be 3 free throws.

The whole point of signals and mechanics is to help us communicate better. This seems to me to be a good example of communicating early, so there's no surprises when the call is actually made.

[GoodwillRef]

I signal the three as he is going up (signals that he is in act of shooting) so if he gets foued, it's easy to know it was a three...

What signal marks that he is in the act of shooting when it is a two point shot?

This is just a "tool" I like to use to make sure I stay with the shooter and not track the flight of the ball on a three point shot. You would be surprised how long the player isn't in the air and remember the ball has to travel at least 19'9".

IMO we miss a lot more fouls on three point shooters than we do player shooting two point shots.

[just another ref]

Better to mark the three and then have it not turn out to be a shot than fail to mark the three..............and then forget.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Better to mark the three and then have it not turn out to be a shot than fail to mark the three..............and then forget.

No one said that we failed to mark or forgot to mark a three pointer...I worked 90 games this year and never had a problem with waiting to mark the three until the shooter came back down...the shooter isn't in the air for 5 seconds./

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

No one said that we failed to mark or forgot to mark a three pointer...I worked 90 games this year and never had a problem with waiting to mark the three until the shooter came back down...the shooter isn't in the air for 5 seconds./

The point was that marking a three isn't a big problem, no matter what does or does not happen afterward.

In the OP: His feet are behind the line. Never mind.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

IMO we miss a lot more fouls on three point shooters than we do player shooting two point shots.

I agree with this statement, but it is not missed in my opinion because you give or do not give a signal. Actually, since the Center and the Trail are to signal the good basket, my signal is to let my partner know I have an attempt so they can mirror. I do not take my eye off the shooter if that player is in my area whether there is a two point shot or three point shot. I guess I do not understand what a signal has to do with following the shooter. You can chew bubble gum and walk at the same time right.

Peace

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree with this statement, but it is not missed in my opinion because you give or do not give a signal. Actually, since the Center and the Trail are to signal the good basket, my signal is to let my partner know I have an attempt so they can mirror. I do not take my eye off the shooter if that player is in my area whether there is a two point shot or three point shot. I guess I do not understand what a signal has to do with following the shooter. You can chew bubble gum and walk at the same time right.

Peace

It just has been my observations for whatever reason that we have a lot of officials that take theirs eyes off a airborne three point shooter to follow the ball and it seems to me as soon as they raise the arm to mark the three point shoot their eyes go right to the ball.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

It just has been my observations for whatever reason that we have a lot of officials that take theirs eyes off a airborne three point shooter to follow the ball and it seems to me as soon as they raise the arm to mark the three point shoot their eyes go right to the ball.

I agree but it has nothing to do with a signal. I signal and stay with the shooter. If the shooter is not threatened, I go with the ball. Again after doing 3 Person Mechanics almost exclusively for over 10 years, I have learned that my partners can follow the ball and I do not have to worry about the ball in this situation.

And the signal has nothing to do with a successful basket. So I do not see how in any way someone is confused. What would you suggest the officials that do not have the last second shot to do? Do you not want them to signal even if the shoot would not be successful too?

Peace

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

My opinion waiting to mark the three until he comes back to the floor is going to be way late and cause more problems than waiting

The kid gets fouled and you have not marked it as a three, you are going to have a hard time selling something. (If he is back on the floor; he no longer is in shooting motion)...

I signal the three as he is going up (signals that he is in act of shooting) so if he gets foued, it's easy to know it was a three...

As you say, going up with the ball a good deal of the time will result in a shot, but not always...I've seen many times kids go up for what should be a shot, then see the nearby defender and dish it off at the last second to a teammate, thinking the shot will be blocked. If they're still fouled during the pass, then it's not in the act of shooting, and they only get FTs if their team is in the bonus. So now if you've got your 3 signal while he was going up, you've got to explain to the offensive team why you've signaled 3 points, yet they're not getting any FTs (unless in bonus, in which case you explain why it's 1 and 1 or 2, instead of 3). This is why, getting back to my previous assertions, I think you hold off on the 3 signal until the ball is released, and by then you know if the horn has gone off and whether or not the ball was released in time. If they get the ball off in time, go up with your signal. If not, then no 3 signal, and wave everything off...

And it's not going to be "way late" for returning to the floor. These kids don't have Jordan-esque hang time. After they release their shot at the top of their jump, you've got maybe a half-second or so before they return to the floor.

[jeffro]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

The Center official "marks" the three point shot as soon as the player's feet leave the floor (the ball is still in his hands)...I like to wait until the player has returned to the floor to "mark" the three point attempt...this helps me bring the shooter back to the floor safely. It also eliminated "marking" a three point attempt and then have the shooter pass the ball.

Did this in a game, my P told me that was the best 3 point pass he has ever seen. We both laughed and I learned from it.