Does time need to come off the clock on TO?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

I don't this that this situation is as clear cut as some would like to make it.

First of all, if the ball is touched/controlled by the rebounder and the whistle is immediately blown to stop the clock, it is POSSIBLE that by the time the timer went to click to start the clock, he/she heard the whistle and stopped the action of starting the clock. This is even more likely to be the case if the timer heard the conversation between coach/official regarding the request.

I would say that tests could be run to verify how much time actually runs off a clock in these situations. I would guess that the time is more like 1/10 to 2/10s of a second -- NOT 4/10s of a second.

I would agree that it would be great if there would be a case that would tell us to take a specific amount of time off the clock in a "rebound/TO" or "catch/TO" scenario. I think that 2/10s is a better option -- since 4/10s actually allows for a possible catch AND SHOOT. But, we would know that AT LEAST 2/10s would be taken off the clock -- more if there was a bobble, etc.

With the clock stopped, and the first touch inbounds is via an illegal act, most would agree that we do not start the clock. I think the opposite is true, that when the first touch inbounds is legal, we need to have a start,and then if necessary, a stop.

Somebody (NBA?) did a study that players couldn't catch and release with 0.3s or less. For ease-of-rule sake, make 0.3s for the max time that can come off the clock if it is deemed to be a simultaneous legal inbounds touch/reason to stop the clock. If someone does a study and it turns out to be some other value, then so be it. But to say that no time can come off the clock conflicts too much with the case of the first touching being illegal.

OTOH, we can argue that it takes 0.3s for possession to be gained. Possession and shot takes more than 0.3s. So, possession and TO could require 0.4s to come off the clock.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

With the clock stopped, and the first touch inbounds is via an illegal act, most would agree that we do not start the clock. I think the opposite is true, that when the first touch inbounds is legal, we need to have a start,and then if necessary, a stop.

OTOH, we can argue that it takes 0.3s for possession to be gained. Possession and shot takes more than 0.3s. So, possession and TO could require 0.4s to come off the clock.

JR,
So, you are saying that everytime a throw-in takes place in the last minute of a quarter in which the ball is thrown inbounds and the defender immediately knocks the ball out of bounds (into the hands of the thrower on down to the ground), you will take some amount of time off the clock in the event the clock never started? If so, how much time do you take off the clock in this case? The ball was LEGALLY touched in play by the defender in this case, correct?

By the way, I think it would be hard to prove that it takes a full 3/10s of a second to control the ball.

We are truly talking about a very small amount of time in the original post. Due to the reaction times of human beings (delay in starting, delay in stopping, delay in hearing the request for the tmeout, etc.), I maintain that any amount of time between 6/10s of a second and 0/10s of a second are POSSIBLE. The LEAST LIKELY acceptable time would be 0/10s knowing that the player controlled the ball immediately and the request was made immediately).

As has been pointed out, we really need to have DEFINITE KNOWLEDGE to put time back up on the clock. When we are dealing with fractions of a second, this is EXTREMELY difficult.

If we would have a set MINIMUM amount of time by rule for a control/timeout request to be made (similar to the MINIMUM of 4/10s of a second for a control/shoot), this situation could easily be determined. Without such a ruling, any option is possible when such a small sliver of time is being discussed.