OT - OSAA gone too PC?

[WreckRef]

There was an article about attendance being down at high school basketball games this year in Oregon and they were wondering if it was due to some new sportsmanship rules.

I believe these changes were in response to a couple of high profile situations last year involving racist taunts which truly have no place anywhere in society let alone athletics.

Personally, I think that the OSAA went too far with some of these. What do you guys/gals think? I have highlighted the ones in red that I don't think are necessarily inappropriate.

I should qualify this by saying I don't think it's inappropriate for the students. I don't think adults should ever act this way at high school sporting events. I was at the girls state tournament last year when the parents from a team jumped up and yelled, "You got swatted!! You got swatted!!!" Maybe that shouldn't bother me but I don't think that's appropriate for 35-40 year olds to yell @ 16 or 17 year old girls.

Below are excerpts from the Oregon School Activities Association outlining new rules for student/adult fan behavior at OSAA events.

Rule 3 – Contests – Sportsmanship – Crowd Control

D. All cheers, comments and actions shall be in direct support of one’s team. No cheers, comments or actions shall be directed at one’s opponent or at contest officials. Some examples of inappropriate conduct or actions that are not permitted are: turning backs, holding up newspapers or jeering at cheerleaders during opposing team introductions; disrespecting players by name, number or position; negative cheers or chants; throwing objects on the floor. “Air Ball! Air Ball!, booing, “You! You! You!, or “You Got Swatted!” are examples of yells that will not encourage a positive atmosphere. (Revised Fall 2008)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by WreckRef

Throwing objects on the floor.

Not even toilet paper?

[bas2456]

How bout they just eliminate the fans altogether.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bas2456

How bout they just eliminate the fans altogether.

That sounds fine to me. (Not really, but that would solve the problem they are trying to fix).

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by WreckRef

I have highlighted the ones in red that I don't think are necessarily inappropriate.

Let me ask you why you don't believe those specific ones are inappropriate? Is it because you believe that they are positive and friendly? Are they good ways to treat a competing student athlete? Do you believe that an athletic contest provides an environment in which it is okay to jeer and mock your fellow citizens and neighbors simply because they are with the opposing side or are serving as a neutral adjudicator?

Perhaps your view of the Oregon policy is clouded by what has long been accepted in sports and not formed by asking yourself if this is an appropriate way to treat other members of our society.

If the OHAA wants to foster more friendly atmosphere instead of an antagonistic one, I have no problem with that.

For those who will argue that they have gone overboard and are banning a bit of harmless fun, ask yourself why we should feel the need to derive joy from the misfortune of others? Isn't it enough to simply relish in the positive actions and successes of those we favor?

Hey, I would be in violation of the newspaper "rule"! I read mine during the introductions when I go watch the games, because that is the BORING part of the game! I'm really there for the action and to see how my brothers and sisters of the stripes manage that action.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Hey, I would be in violation of the newspaper "rule"! I read mine during the introductions when I go watch the games, because that is the BORING part of the game! I'm really there for the action and to see how my brothers and sisters of the stripes manage that action.

I read mine during staff meetings. Is that the reason I didn't get a bonus on my last appraisal?

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by WreckRef

There was an article about attendance being down at high school basketball games this year in Oregon and they were wondering if it was due to some new sportsmanship rules.

I believe these changes were in response to a couple of high profile situations last year involving racist taunts which truly have no place anywhere in society let alone athletics.

Personally, I think that the OSAA went too far with some of these. What do you guys/gals think? I have highlighted the ones in red that I don't think are necessarily inappropriate.

I should qualify this by saying I don't think it's inappropriate for the students. I don't think adults should ever act this way at high school sporting events. I was at the girls state tournament last year when the parents from a team jumped up and yelled, "You got swatted!! You got swatted!!!" Maybe that shouldn't bother me but I don't think that's appropriate for 35-40 year olds to yell @ 16 or 17 year old girls.

Below are excerpts from the Oregon School Activities Association outlining new rules for student/adult fan behavior at OSAA events.

Rule 3 – Contests – Sportsmanship – Crowd Control

D. All cheers, comments and actions shall be in direct support of one’s team. No cheers, comments or actions shall be directed at one’s opponent or at contest officials. Some examples of inappropriate conduct or actions that are not permitted are: turning backs, holding up newspapers or jeering at cheerleaders during opposing team introductions; disrespecting players by name, number or position; negative cheers or chants; throwing objects on the floor. “Air Ball! Air Ball!, booing, “You! You! You!, or “You Got Swatted!” are examples of yells that will not encourage a positive atmosphere. (Revised Fall 2008)

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Let me ask you why you don't believe those specific ones are inappropriate? Is it because you believe that they are positive and friendly? Are they good ways to treat a competing student athlete? Do you believe that an athletic contest provides an environment in which it is okay to jeer and mock your fellow citizens and neighbors simply because they are with the opposing side or are serving as a neutral adjudicator?

Perhaps your view of the Oregon policy is clouded by what has long been accepted in sports and not formed by asking yourself if this is an appropriate way to treat other members of our society.

If the OHAA wants to foster more friendly atmosphere instead of an antagonistic one, I have no problem with that.

For those who will argue that they have gone overboard and are banning a bit of harmless fun, ask yourself why we should feel the need to derive joy from the misfortune of others? Isn't it enough to simply relish in the positive actions and successes of those we favor?

Nevadref,
The question posed was "Have the new sportmanship rules had a negative effect on attendance?"

While your views on society may be true enough, I would say that such rules CLEARLY have an adverse affect on attendance.

Schools that have large student sections do many or all of the things banned in this rule quotation. I am guessing that you, like me, have been out of high school for more years the age of those still in it (i.e. you are more than 36 years old). Kids have many choices today -- more than they had when we were going up. The one thing that hasn't changed is that kids like to have fun. Sometimes having fun is humor at someone else's expense.

I agree that making personal attacks on individual players or ANY type of activity that could be deemed as threatening to a player or a team must be stopped immediately. On the other hand, what harm is there is students turning their backs for the introductions or putting up newspapers. It is done in fun. If us older members of society ban the kids from having fun in one activity, they will merely FIND ANOTHER ACTIVITY resulting in LOWER ATTENDANCE, resulting in less revenue for the sport, resulting in high fees for the players/lower payments for the officials, etc.

Have these regulations gone to far (that was the original question)? I think that they have. Why, because all of these actions are actually completely appropriate and should be ENCOURAGED? NO! I would agree that these actions are less preferred than some other actions. At the same time, I can assure you that when I played, I LOVED playing in front of a full house -- at home and on the road. It got my adrenalin pumping. The same applies to games that I coached and that I officiate.

Remember, it is still an athletic COMPETITION. Part of competition (in athletics and in the rule world) involves trying to beat the other team. As long as the comments do not get PERSONAL, THREATENING, VULGAR, RACIST, SEXIST, RELIGIOUS, etc., I think we better let the kids yell and scream (and HAVE FUN) at athletic contests. If we don't, they will view athletic contests as just one more activity that the adults control and prevent the kids from enjoying. Over time, the 48 people in the stands (the 24 parents plus/minus from each team) will be the only ones at the game.

In essence, what I am suggesting is that I think that we have to decide whether we would rather have a "church-like" crowd with a lower attendance or a more animated crowd that is larger number. I am not saying that we have to put up with the capitalized items in the previous paragraph. But, to make the game more like an extension of the school day, we are bound to have fewer people.

[Texref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

For those who will argue that they have gone overboard and are banning a bit of harmless fun, ask yourself why we should feel the need to derive joy from the misfortune of others? Isn't it enough to simply relish in the positive actions and successes of those we favor?

How is turning your back or "reading" the paper during introductions deriving joy from the misfortune of others?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Texref

How is turning your back or "reading" the paper during introductions deriving joy from the misfortune of others?

It's not. It's a dumb policy with non-athletes trying to exert their ideal into a place where it doesn't belong.

[Texref]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

It's not. It's a dumb policy with non-athletes trying to exert their ideal into a place where it doesn't belong.

I absolutely agree with you. I was asking Nevada though as he seems to be on his high horse about this one

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I read mine during staff meetings. Is that the reason I didn't get a bonus on my last appraisal?

Probably...depends on the headline the boss saw!

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by WreckRef

There was an article about attendance being down at high school basketball games this year in Oregon and they were wondering if it was due to some new sportsmanship rules.

I believe these changes were in response to a couple of high profile situations last year involving racist taunts which truly have no place anywhere in society let alone athletics.

Personally, I think that the OSAA went too far with some of these. What do you guys/gals think? I have highlighted the ones in red that I don't think are necessarily inappropriate.

I should qualify this by saying I don't think it's inappropriate for the students. I don't think adults should ever act this way at high school sporting events. I was at the girls state tournament last year when the parents from a team jumped up and yelled, "You got swatted!! You got swatted!!!" Maybe that shouldn't bother me but I don't think that's appropriate for 35-40 year olds to yell @ 16 or 17 year old girls.

Below are excerpts from the Oregon School Activities Association outlining new rules for student/adult fan behavior at OSAA events.

Rule 3 – Contests – Sportsmanship – Crowd Control

D. All cheers, comments and actions shall be in direct support of one’s team. No cheers, comments or actions shall be directed at one’s opponent or at contest officials. Some examples of inappropriate conduct or actions that are not permitted are: turning backs, holding up newspapers or jeering at cheerleaders during opposing team introductions; disrespecting players by name, number or position; negative cheers or chants; throwing objects on the floor. “Air Ball! Air Ball!, booing, “You! You! You!, or “You Got Swatted!” are examples of yells that will not encourage a positive atmosphere. (Revised Fall 2008)

Sounds like the politically correct crowd are at it again.

[Tim C]

"Personally, I think that the OSAA went too far with some of these."

So let me get this straight: The Oregon School Activities Association has generated rules that require schools to model Good Sportsmanship and you are against that.

The OSAA is just following the general philosophy the NFHS that feels that a sporting event is an extension of the classroom and a learning experience for players, coaches, officials and fans.

My, what a terrible thing.

Let the college crowds model what ever they want. High school sports has a totally different direction (intended result) than college or professional sports.

If attendance is down because of this (and there is no data to prove it is or is not) then perhaps it is the correct people that are staying away. I have enjoyed football and basketball games more this year than anytime in the past 10 years.

Tim Christensen

Secretary
Oregon Athletic Officals Association
State Baseball Umpire Committee

Publication Committee Member
National Federation of State High Schools
High School Today

[Juulie Downs]

Wreck (oo, not a very good nickname!) -- I suppose they conjectured that these things were "provocations" even if in themselves they may not be all that bad. But it does seem way, way over the top.

I'd rather see them find ways to ENcourage positive cheering and appropriate behavior, rather than just stomp down hard on the bad stuff, or what they see as bad stuff.

I agree that I'm not sure how prohibiting the things you listed will help prevent the kinds of incidents you referred to. Those were indeed ugly and had little to do with turning backs. holding newspapers, etc.