could I have fixed this?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Should a college official take that same attitude when working a HS game?

If they were working a high school game where the majority of the players were on the court for the first time, they might be forced to adopt a similar attitude.

I should say that I do, perhaps, have more latitude in making what you might consider an outrageous call such as this, because, in our league, I am the rules committee. That's right. Just me. Nobody else. After conferring a bit with the league director, I type up the rules, which we have adjusted slightly a few times over the years. They read, in part: "Games will be played by high school rules with the following exceptions," which are listed afterward, and include differences in timing, full court defense, substitutions, etc. There is also a line which states: "Some adjustments will be made on the calling..........to provide a maximum learning experience for all."

I have no problem believing that righting this wrong by the official helped to maximize the experience.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

There is also a line which states: "Some adjustments will be made on the calling..........to provide a maximum learning experience for all."

I have no problem believing that righting this wrong by the official helped to maximize the experience.

I guess our opinions are just going to differ because I happen to believe that incorrectly fixing this misses that opportunity for a learning experience.

Teaching the kids wrongly doesn't teach them anything.

[AKOFL]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I guess our opinions are just going to differ because I happen to believe that incorrectly fixing this misses that opportunity for a learning experience.

Teaching the kids wrongly doesn't teach them anything.

Did you teach your kids about Santa?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

Did you teach your kids about Santa?

You're kidding right?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Old School would.

Note: The "old" Old School would. The new one seems alright.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by tcosmo

No home book being kept. Home team Coach ok with visiting team keeping the book. Inexpierenced clock person (trouble with posession all game).
5th grade tournament. Tie game 39-39 8.9 left on clock, Blue calls time out after a red make. Time out awarded. coming out of time out ball is inbounded to red and they score 39-41, blue inbounds after make and time runs out. game over. Blue Coach protests. There are no options? right? Game over my mistake. Even the director of the tournament has no options, except to learn from the bad call and possibly put rules to mandate there be a rep at the table to help the Blue coach.

By Rule (which becomes something sort of important for us in the officiating business), there is nothing you can do in this situation for the Blue team. Putting someone at the scorer's table will do NOTHING for the Blue team.

What the Blue coach needs to do is keep a MUCH CLOSER eye on who the officials are giving the ball to for a throw-in. I would also have a designated inbounder, with this small amount of time remaining and the score tied, you can bet that all five players would have had a role to play. That player would have known something was wrong pretty quickly!

What YOU need to do as an official is develop a technique for remembering which team will be inbounding the ball. If you are at the inbound spot/location always hold the ball in a manner in which you can determine which way the ball is to go (personally, I hold the ball in the hand nearest the basket the offensive team is attacking when I face the scorer's table. If the team can run the end line, I do the same, but I stand slightly inside the end line.). If you are an off official, you can slightly pull the pocket up in your pants or keep the hand open (similar to the ball situation above) or stand slightly to the left/right (by a few inches) of your designated position to help you remember direction. Additionally, make sure that you communicate to both teams and your partner(s) where the ball will be located for the next throw-in and WHO will be taking it as you report the time out.

You could "correct" your error as many have suggested. Most or even all of the parents, coaches and players would likely support your decision by getting it right. I have argued that this situation SHOULD be "correctable" to a point (I cannot justify correcting this one after the basket is scored), BUT it is not today. "Correcting" this error would be reasonable to just about anyone who DOESN'T KNOW THE RULES!!! So, if, after reviewing this thread you feel that you want to set the rules aside, you may have done the "fair" thing as several have pointed out. On the other hand, you would be CLEARLY setting aside a rule in doing so.

Good arguments on both sides. Unfortunately, when arguing a rules question on an officials forum, I hope you understand that we should be following the rules as they are defined. But, in the future, let's hope that the official (and the coach) are paying a bit more attention so that the kids aren't learning that kind of life lesson on their "watch."

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I guess our opinions are just going to differ because I happen to believe that incorrectly fixing this misses that opportunity for a learning experience.

Teaching the kids wrongly doesn't teach them anything.

The point in this case was actually not the learning, but that it is written that adjustments will be made. A fifth grade game and a varsity game are not the same game. Prime example: In our league, we shoot no free throws at all during the regular season, and only in the last 30 seconds of a close (6 points or less) game during the tournament. The reason? There are very few players that can make a free throw. They do not add to the quality of the game, especially not relative to the amount of time they take. In Nevada, if you want to line 'em up and shoot and call all those lane violations, be my guest.

[SmokeEater]

At this level of play you need to decide, Do you want to be right or get it right?

[bradfordwilkins]

Technically if the "official" (for this league) rules allow the referee discresion to adjust a rule for learning purposes, then I think he has (in a weird end around) followed the rules as written.

When you talk about teaching them the wrong thing -- I think teaching them to use deception to get an advantage would be worse than teaching them that as much as possible the "right" call will be made.

These are 5th graders for heaven's sakes -- they are LEARNING the game, there is nothing on the line except their pride, happiness, etc. They are playing organized basketball to have FUN (hopefully). No scholarships are going to won or lost based on the results of the game... which is where it'd differentiate from a high school or college game, imo.

[AKOFL]

Originally Posted by grunewar

You're kidding right?

Yes. heavy on the sarcasm. In this sit the kids would have learned more, I think, if the official had got it right. I know the rules do not allow for this, But the level of ball does come in to play. It's just a bummer that this ooops cost a team the game. We know the rules but anyone that doesn't say they "wanted to correct this" needs some help. They did the right thing not correcting it, but it's still a sad sit.