T or no T

[GoodwillRef]

[QUOTE=Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.;584815]I don't care what the level of play there is only one thing that can happen:

WHACK!! FLAGRANT TECHNICAL FOUL

MTD, Sr.[/QUOTE

So at the high school level you are going to eject the coach for this...I am not. Not on what was described in this play.

[cardinalfan]

The F-Bomb is the magic word for me in basketball or baseball. Doesn't matter if it is a coach, player or fan. Doesn't matter if it is directed at me.
I remember one time I let it go because of the level of play, the fact that I thought the whole conversation was hilarious, and I was the only one who heard it:

I tossed a kid in a NAIA baseball game a couple of years ago for dropping a F-bomb very loud in the form of a verb after I punched him out on strikes.
Coach runs out and asks, "What did he say?"
"He dropped the F-Bomb coach"
"You gotta be f***ing kidding? He said f***?"
"Yes, sir"
"OK. Thanks. I don't want that s**t on my team".

[jearef]

I'm gonna get it stirred up now.

Almost all of us are saying this is a "no-brainer" tech at the 11-year old level, which would imply that the same thing said at the high-school varsity level might not be penalized. The rules prohibit the use of profanity. The F-bomb is about as profane as it gets. So how do we justify a pass on this in a varsity game?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

Coach yells at player "It's a f---ing layup"

Which of these factors also make a difference?

Volume: All 10 players, his bench, and the scorers' table heard him. Fans were on opposite side, and they probably didn't.

Gender: Boys

Age: 11 & under

I passed then regretted it.

At minimum, it's a T. That includes high school. I would hope that college ball up here would T that up, but I can see if they don't.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jearef

I'm gonna get it stirred up now.

Almost all of us are saying this is a "no-brainer" tech at the 11-year old level, which would imply that the same thing said at the high-school varsity level might not be penalized. The rules prohibit the use of profanity. The F-bomb is about as profane as it gets. So how do we justify a pass on this in a varsity game?

I agree with you, but I wouldn't get all Quixotic on this and go jousting windmills. If the folks in your area think it should be ignored, well....

FWIW, I'd T this up at the HS varsity level until I'm told to let it be; and I'm guessing I wouldn't be corrected around here.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I don't care what the level of play there is only one thing that can happen:

WHACK!! FLAGRANT TECHNICAL FOUL

MTD, Sr.

If I had it to do over again, I'd go with a flagrant tech. It caught me by surprise.

This wasn't ordinary 11 y/o boys b-ball, it was a Biddy Basketball Regional Tournament, and teams came from MA, NY, NJ, and PA to this. So they were very good players and the level of intensity was more like a game with much older players. Even so, I know I should've penalized with at least a T, and since it was also used while addressing a child instead of just an expression of anger to himself, I think flagrant was the way to go.

Thanks all.

Originally Posted by cardinalfan

I tossed a kid in a NAIA baseball game a couple of years ago for dropping a F-bomb very loud in the form of a verb after I punched him out on strikes.
Coach runs out and asks, "What did he say?"
"He dropped the F-Bomb coach"
"You gotta be f***ing kidding? He said f***?"
"Yes, sir"
"OK. Thanks. I don't want that s**t on my team".

I had to smile when I read this. Love the coach's contradictory approach. Reminds me of the baseball coach we had when I was in college. One time when he got ejected (and there were so many of those I couldn't count it on two hands), he left the field, and walked across the road (which runs near the field) and stood there to watch what he could of the game, and was still yelling the profanities loud enough some of us in the bleachers could hear him. Funny part was, there's a skeet range nearby, and every time someone took a shot over there, another profanity from coach's mouth. We were laughing so hard, because it was as if he was swearing everytime he was getting shot or something. He came back for the second game of the doubleheader, and was calm, but had an ashen look on his face when he realized the umpires knew why we were laughing.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

Coach yells at player "It's a f---ing layup"

Which of these factors also make a difference?

Volume: All 10 players, his bench, and the scorers' table heard him. Fans were on opposite side, and they probably didn't.

Gender: Boys

Age: 11 & under

I passed then regretted it.

Whack-a-rom-a!!!

[JBleach85]

Most definitely a T. I had a coach do that earlier this season that actually said that exact same thing and I had to give him the T. It is just one of those things at that level when everyone can hear you need to address it because after all we are there for the kids.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by jearef

I'm gonna get it stirred up now.

Almost all of us are saying this is a "no-brainer" tech at the 11-year old level, which would imply that the same thing said at the high-school varsity level might not be penalized. The rules prohibit the use of profanity. The F-bomb is about as profane as it gets. So how do we justify a pass on this in a varsity game?

At the high school level, if I determine a player said it under his breath, directed at no one, I'm passing. I can't remember the last time I heard a varsity player drop an f bomb in one of my games.

[OHBBREF]

In this game he better hope it is on radio because that is the only way he gets to hear the end of this one.

Whack Flagrant lets move on.

In high school I wouldn't have a problem with a flagrant here either!
Why would you pass - the ten players on the floor and the scorers table heard it. Which means you heard it that is all that is required.
Where does not that fit under the definition of Unsporting or Flagrant
Rule 4
Section 19
ART. 4 . . . A flagrant foul may be a personal or technical foul of a violent or savage nature, or a technical noncontact foul which displays unacceptable conduct. It may or may not be intentional. If personal, it involves, but is not limited to violent contact such as: striking, kicking and kneeing. If technical, it involves dead-ball contact or noncontact at any time which is extreme or persistent, vulgar or abusive conduct. Fighting is a flagrant act.


This was called in the UC/WV game the other night on Cronin, he added family ties to it and said it directly to the official, but he launched it out their and got his T for it.

having said all that;
if you choose for some reason not to hand out a well deserved T here, in FED or NCAA, you better at a minimum issue that warning (even if there really isn't one in FED) to let everyone in the facility know that you have this under control, and if it happens again there are going to be consequenses period !

however even in the NCAA sombody is going to ask you why you didn't deal with this if someone brings it up later. Now most days even though we can all read lips they just pass this stuff by as acceptable, who's fault is it?
OURS because we do not deal with it we have let it become an acceptable action and therefore those who do deal with it are the exception not the rule.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by fullor30

At the high school level, if I determine a player said it under his breath, directed at no one, I'm passing.

I don't use the "F" word myself, and it would almost be an automatic technical foul in my game, but there are exceptions. Last week, I had a varsity player get beat on a super back door cut, and foul his opponent from behind as the offensive player layed the ball in. Under his breath he said the "F" word, directed toward himself, because he got beat on the play. I was the only one who heard him. After I reported the foul, I passed by him, and said, "Young man, I don't like language like that on my court". He apologized to me, and we played on.

[walter]

I agree with Billy Mac. It depends on the sitch and what is said for me. I've had plays where a kid gets beat and under his/her breath, where I fairly certain that I'm the only one who heard it, curses. I will warn the player similar to what Billy Mac suggested. If a player yells it out or directs it at me or another player, etc., whack! It probably is a double standard but I think an official needs to understand the setting and use of the word(s) instead of just banging him/her right away. JMO.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I don't use the "F" word myself, and it would almost be an automatic technical foul in my game, but there are exceptions. Last week, I had a varsity player get beat on a super back door cut, and foul his opponent from behind as the offensive player layed the ball in. Under his breath he said the "F" word, directed toward himself, because he got beat on the play. I was the only one who heard him. After I reported the foul, I passed by him, and said, "Young man, I don't like language like that on my court". He apologized to me, and we played on.

Precisely.

BillyMac field house or arena?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by fullor30

As Kinky Friedman says on his in concert album "I never say f_ _K in front of the K-I-D-S"

R O F L M A O

MTD, Sr.