No Warning given

[TrojanHorse]

A coaching friend of mine couldnt understand why she got a T this past week. Now I have pieced some things together to get most of the story as I was not there. Some time during the 3q, she was up set by a foul call. She became visibly upset and was a bit animated. A buddy of mine said she jumped into the air, landed like a jump stop on the court and pretty much yelled..how is that a foul. It was here where she got the T. She called me that night as was telling me this. Of course he didnt tell me all the animation she did. Anyway what seemed to upset her the most was that she didnt get a warning. I tried to tell her that depending on how she acted, how she approached the official, etc.

Granted, this was 8th grade girls, I tried to tell her that at that level, the officials are learning to call a game, learning to manage a game just as she is learning to coach. Sometimes this is the way things work out. Live and learn is what I told her. She still seemed upset a few days later...Am I leaving anything out to explain to her or talking to her about how this was handled especially on her end? Thanks

[IHSAref]

I think that the main reason she got the T was due to her landing on the court, and yelling, hence showing up the official. No warrning will be given in this situation.

[budjones05]

There is no such thing as "warning" a coach for his/her behavior/actions according to the rulebook. It's something that officials use to help keep a coach into the game.

[JugglingReferee]

I hear more and more about "not getting a warning". A warning is a courtesy. I hope she's not too far into the culture of entitlement.

If this coach is still upset over a call from 3 days ago, she hasn't been T'd up many times.

Ask her how would she feel if she saw herself on videotape, And then ask her why she didn't tell you about her animation.

[TrojanHorse]

I think video might be the best for her to see. Honestly, when I made the switch over from officiating to coaching, my first year was brutal...for everyone involved. I really did have trouble leaving the officiating game. But it took my father to ask me..how would you have dealt with yourself in that game and has been so much better for me. 4 years later, I am easy going and try to have the most fun every game night. I will have to ask her about the video thing..

[Adam]

8th grade game? I'm calling this T without warning. She's obviously received too many warnings in the past.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse

Some time during the 3q, she was up set by a foul call. She became visibly upset and was a bit animated. A buddy of mine said she jumped into the air, landed like a jump stop on the court and pretty much yelled..how is that a foul. It was here where she got the T. She called me that night as was telling me this. Of course he didnt tell me all the animation she did. Anyway what seemed to upset her the most was that she didnt get a warning. I tried to tell her that depending on how she acted, how she approached the official, etc.

Granted, this was 8th grade girls, I tried to tell her that at that level, the officials are learning to call a game, learning to manage a game just as she is learning to coach. Sometimes this is the way things work out. Live and learn is what I told her. She still seemed upset a few days later...Am I leaving anything out to explain to her or talking to her about how this was handled especially on her end? Thanks

This sounds pretty clear to me. You act like that and you cannot figure out why you got a T, you are either naive or rather stupid.

Peace

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This sounds pretty clear to me. You act like that and you cannot figure out why you got a T, you are either naive or rather stupid.
Peace

Rut has it nailed - nowin the interest of avoiding future confontations you can explain that most "REC" leagues play under federation rules - and the federation does not have a provision to for a warning in its rules. The warning "Stop sign" or whatever you want to call it at this level is a courtesy offered by officials to avoid giving the coach a T for what I would classify as continual but borderline behavior by a coach. Based on the description you have given here these actions would have garnered a T at any level. you might recommend two things to your friend to go along with video.
1) Explain the difference between NCAA and Federation rules to her and also explain that even in the NCAA the warning is a tool to control a coach but it is not required that a warning be issued
2) Have her actually read the rules regarding her conduct so that she knows why she was served T during the game
Rule 10 Section 4 a through f
Based on your description she violated 3 possibly 4 provisions of this rule.
So there is little doubt this was deserved.

[mbyron]

More concretely: some kinds of behavior merit a T only when the coach persists in them. For example, I have no problem answering a coach who asks me why I called a foul (or better: what did I see).

But not every trip down the court. For that, I'll warn first and then whack. The rationale for the warning is to make the line clear: with his or her persistence, the coach has gone from asking questions to attempting to influence an official. Only the latter is prohibited by rule.

Jumping out on the court over a call? That's ridiculous.

[dsturdy5]

This sounds like a situation I had last season. Freshman boys coach who is notorious for his sideline antics questioned a call I made of a held ball. I explained what I saw, he told me it was the worst call he had seen all year. I replied that I had heard enough for the day (he had gotten my ear more than once that afternoon). As I went back down court, he thought I had turned away, he jumped up, waved his arms in a dismissing manner towards me, stuck out his tongue, and made a "raspberry" noise. I whacked him. In post game paper work he complained that I did not warn him about behavior, only against speaking out against calls.



Side note: This coach continues to be employed despite being sent for anger management several times due to his behavior as dictated by the state athletic association. Once I was made aware of this, I refused any assignments involving his team.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by mbyron

More concretely: some kinds of behavior merit a T only when the coach persists in them. For example, I have no problem answering a coach who asks me why I called a foul (or better: what did I see).

But not every trip down the court. For that, I'll warn first and then whack. The rationale for the warning is to make the line clear: with his or her persistence, the coach has gone from asking questions to attempting to influence an official. Only the latter is prohibited by rule.

Jumping out on the court over a call? That's ridiculous.

This is probably the best summary. To compare with the sport of soccer, a yellow card can be issued for persistent infringement (repeated fouls by or on a particular player for fouls that individually would NOT have elevated to the point of being a yellow card) while a particular foul (intentionally holding an opponent to prevent a rapid transition, for example) can be penalized with an immediate yellow card.

The latter was the case in the basketball game.

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

8th grade game? I'm calling this T without warning. She's obviously received too many warnings in the past.

Agreed. Sounds exactly like my kids who complain when I unplug their video games after (OK, big sigh) several warnings that their time is up. Unfortunately this has also led to loss of the box for them, too.

[Mark Padgett]

In effect, the T is the warning. It means act up again and you're outta here.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse

A coaching friend of mine couldnt understand why she got a T this past week. Now I have pieced some things together to get most of the story as I was not there. Some time during the 3q, she was up set by a foul call. She became visibly upset and was a bit animated. A buddy of mine said she jumped into the air, landed like a jump stop on the court and pretty much yelled..how is that a foul. It was here where she got the T. She called me that night as was telling me this. Of course he didnt tell me all the animation she did. Anyway what seemed to upset her the most was that she didnt get a warning. I tried to tell her that depending on how she acted, how she approached the official, etc.

Granted, this was 8th grade girls, I tried to tell her that at that level, the officials are learning to call a game, learning to manage a game just as she is learning to coach. Sometimes this is the way things work out. Live and learn is what I told her. She still seemed upset a few days later...Am I leaving anything out to explain to her or talking to her about how this was handled especially on her end? Thanks

Or if someone like me is calling a game, we just don't take crap from coaches of 8th grade girls teams?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

In effect, the T is the warning. It means act up again and you're outta here.

Reminds me of when I call a balk on a baseball field and advance a runner from first to second:

"Isn't there a warning?"

"That was it. If he does it again, I'll move the runner to third."