Requirement or Courtesy?

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think it is my fault if coaches do not know how many timeouts they have. Actually when I ask coaches what kind of timeout they have, they usually tell me what they are left with. I have never bought that this is essential or the world is going to end if I do not tell a coach he is out or worse, how many timeouts they have left.

Peace

We wouldn't want to do a little preventive officiating.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

We wouldn't want to do a little preventive officiating.

What are you preventing?

If they call a timeout and they do not have one I am giving a T.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What are you preventing?

If they call a timeout and they do not have one I am giving a T.

Peace

Common sense would tell us that a coach will be more aware of something if an official tells him. So, by increasing the chance that a coach will not unknowingly request an excessive timeout, you are improving the game from the game management point of view.

His/Her timeout-tracking process might have not recorded a TO request, for example.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What are you preventing?

If they call a timeout and they do not have one I am giving a T.

Peace

Do you really want to have your game end with a technical foul for calling too many timeouts?

At times you have some very good points in your posts and then other times IMO you go way out into leftfield.

[WreckRef]

I agree with both JR's as they both have valid points.

The rules state that the table is supposed to notify the coaches through the officials so if they don't notify us when the team uses its final TO, it's not our job to go find this information out. I definitely see this in the case of upper levels where there are 1 or multiple assistant coaches.

However, I agree with the other JR that it is preventive officiating and good game management at lower levels where the coach usually doesn't have an assistant or they are just parents volunteering.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Do you really want to have your game end with a technical foul for calling too many timeouts?

At times you have some very good points in your posts and then other times IMO you go way out into leftfield.

Hey, save the baseball references for the baseball thread. (Espcially since the first spring training games are today...whoo hoo!)

Anyway, he isn't in left field on this one. Look again at 2-11-6. It is the scorer's responsibility to notify the coaches (through the officials) they have taken their last TO. It is not the official's job to notify the coaches. Yes, we can know this information. Yes, we can relay this information when the scorer tells us. Yes, we can do it as a courtesy. But it is not our job to tell coaches how many TO's they have left. It is also not our job to prevent calling a T for an excessive TO request when it happens. If a team or coach requests too many TO's, it is possible they might still want one knowing they have requested too many.

[just another ref]

It is the timer's job to start and stop the clock. But we observe the clock and have a count to help the situation if he fails to do so correctly.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It is the timer's job to start and stop the clock. But we observe the clock and have a count to help the situation if he fails to do so correctly.

Right - that's covered in the rules.

Where is it in the rules that it is the official's job to notify coachs the number of TO's they have left?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Right - that's covered in the rules.

Where is it in the rules that it is the official's job to notify coachs the number of TO's they have left?

Reasonably inferred from 2-11-6, for when the last timeout is taken (zero is a number):

ART. 6 . . . Record the time-out information charged to each team (who and when) and notify a team and its coach, through an official, whenever that team is granted its final allotted charged time-out.

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Right - that's covered in the rules.

Where is it in the rules that it is the official's job to notify coachs the number of TO's they have left?

I thought it was decided that it wasn't our job to notify coaches of how many TO's they had left. I believe the debate was if the table failed to notify us the coach had used his/her final TO if we would go searching for this info.

Again, at higher levels I wouldn't. However, at lower levels where you have all volunteers coaching with no assistants or volunteer assistants and untrained volunteers at the scorers table I would. Let me clarify that this is a COURTESY, not a requirement. I still believe that if the scorers table does not inform us we are not required to inform the coach. We cannot supply information that was not given to us and the rules do not state that we are supposed to seek this information out.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Right - that's covered in the rules.

Where is it specified in the rules to have a count just for the purpose of correcting a timing error?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Common sense would tell us that a coach will be more aware of something if an official tells him. So, by increasing the chance that a coach will not unknowingly request an excessive timeout, you are improving the game from the game management point of view.

His/Her timeout-tracking process might have not recorded a TO request, for example.

Well it is common for me to deal with multiple assistant coaches. And with that reality in my life of officiating, coaches already know their status. They do not find God because an official told them.

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Do you really want to have your game end with a technical foul for calling too many timeouts?

What is so bad with having a Technical foul for this as opposed for anything else? Are you not going to call one that is requested?

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

At times you have some very good points in your posts and then other times IMO you go way out into leftfield.

Funny you say this conversation I have not ever had a major debate with anyone about this in my real world as I have on this site or the internet. Actually this happen in a camp game where I was not working and some pretty high up people took a similar position that I am here and the sky did not fall. I do not really understand why this is off the wall when people that I have worked with in high school and college from multiple states do not seem to have your position on this issue. And I can tell you that most I come in contact with are probably more indifferent than I am on this issue. I guess you will just have to learn to deal with people that disagree with you better.

Peace

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I guess you will just have to learn to deal with people that disagree with you better.

Peace

Whatever...A player getting his 5th foul do not result in 2 points and the ball out of bounds!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Whatever...A player getting his 5th foul do not result in 2 points and the ball out of bounds!

So.

And a coach can count, because it is certainly true they do not allow their players to request timeouts anymore. If this is something you are worried about, be my guest. I have never worried about this and it has not hurt me at all at any level.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I guess you will just have to learn to deal with people that disagree with you better.

Peace

Some story about a pot and a kettle comes to mind. Details escape me.