Tackle eligible requirement

[Exkalybr]

In a game I had last weekend, Team A was running an unbalanced line. 4 linemen to the left of the ball, and only a guard and tackle on the right. Is this a legal formation even when the tackle does NOT report eligible? Or is he eligible just because he is on the end of the line just like a TE? This was a youth game, so the numbering exceptions do not apply. I need to know if this is a legal formation or not. The visiting team coach of Team B said the formation was illegal. Was he right? Any help on this would be appreciated.

[1AAUMP]

To be considered an eligible receiver, the player must be on the end of the line or in the backfield and numbered 1-49 or 80-99. Since you stated that in your youth games that numbering exceptions do not apply, the tackle is eligible by position (provided he is on the end of the line and not covered up by a wide receiver).

[mcrowder]

Since you are ignoring numbering (as many do at younger levels), I'm wondering why you are calling him a tackle at all. If he lined up on the end of the line, and numbering doesn't matter, he's a tight end. (And eligible as mentioned above).

[KWH]

Originally posted by Exkalybr
...Is this a legal formation even when the tackle does NOT report eligible?

There is no longer a requirement for, nor an option to allow a player to "report" as an eligible reciever. Hasn't been for years.
Furthermore, a player wearing a number of 50-79 is an ineligible reciever (due to the number he is wearing). Reporting to the referee DOES NOT make him an eligible receiver! This is not an option!
Additionally, the "tackle eligible play" from years ago no longer exists, for the reasons listed above. For a "tackle" to be eligible in todays game, he must be on the end of the line, and NOT wearing a number of 50-79.
Please see NFHS Rule Book 7-5-6a

[Ed Hickland]

In order for a player to be eligible from a position on the line of scrimmage he must be eligible by number (1-49 or 80-99) and position -- on the END of the line.

Since you ignore numbering in youth leagues only players on the END of the line are eligible.

How many times have you hear a youth coach talk about his tight end lining up in the backfield? Or having the tight end next to the split end?

Doesn't the word end imply one is on the END of the line. And, last I checked there can only be one end of a line on the same side.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Since you are ignoring numbering (as many do at younger levels), I'm wondering why you are calling him a tackle at all. If he lined up on the end of the line, and numbering doesn't matter, he's a tight end. (And eligible as mentioned above).

This isn't in the rulebook but I would still call him a tackle. The two guys if there are any, left and right of center are a guard and tackle, no matter what their eligibility is. That's why the coaches say "We have a tackle eligible play" when you ask them about trick plays. It's not a big deal but I guess just different use of terminology.

[ljudge]

Your question about this being an illegal formation wasn't really answered, only whether the player was eligible and what the requirements are.

First, the NFL does call an ineligible on the end of line without reporting an illegal formation. That's the way I understand the rules at that level to work.

But, let's talk about this level with respect to formations. Even if the player is ineligible, it has nothing to do with whether the formation is legal or not. All you need to determine if the formation is legal is that at least 7 men are legally on the line of scrimmage...that's it. If you got at least 7 men legally on the line you have a legal formation.

You do have to have at least 5 guys numbered 50-79 (see exception) but in youth football we usually ignore that aspect of numbering too. But even if you followed that rule it's still not an illegal formation, but rather, a foul for illegal numbering.

[Rich]

Originally posted by ljudge
Your question about this being an illegal formation wasn't really answered, only whether the player was eligible and what the requirements are.

First, the NFL does call an ineligible on the end of line without reporting an illegal formation. That's the way I understand the rules at that level to work.

But, let's talk about this level with respect to formations. Even if the player is ineligible, it has nothing to do with whether the formation is legal or not. All you need to determine if the formation is legal is that at least 7 men are legally on the line of scrimmage...that's it. If you got at least 7 men legally on the line you have a legal formation.

You do have to have at least 5 guys numbered 50-79 (see exception) but in youth football we usually ignore that aspect of numbering too. But even if you followed that rule it's still not an illegal formation, but rather, a foul for illegal numbering.

I had, in a varsity game, number 23 line up as the snapper with ALL the other linemen to his left. We had 5 players numbered 50-79 on the line and seven on the line of scrimmage. Weird stuff.

What was even stranger is that the defensive linemen followed the offensive linemen rather than lining up on the ball.

[mcrowder]

It's called the swinging gate, and they'd BETTER line up with the linemen, and not the ball, or the snapper would either snap it quickly to QB who throws it to a back behind the rest of the line (who often scores), or the snapper snaps it diagonally (legal in FED?) to a back behind the rest of the line. And they'd better not forget to keep 2 or 3 players home with the ball, or they snap it and the QB goes in untouched.

Used most often on XP, but I've seen it occasionally on other plays, especially after a timeout.

[Forksref]

Originally posted by mcrowder
It's called the swinging gate, and they'd BETTER line up with the linemen, and not the ball, or the snapper would either snap it quickly to QB who throws it to a back behind the rest of the line (who often scores), or the snapper snaps it diagonally (legal in FED?) to a back behind the rest of the line. And they'd better not forget to keep 2 or 3 players home with the ball, or they snap it and the QB goes in untouched.

Used most often on XP, but I've seen it occasionally on other plays, especially after a timeout.

We see the swinging gate from one school that uses it on the try. Most of the time they shift the line over to the snapper and go ahead with the kick. Once, last year, they snapped to a back and they ran it. It caused problems since we had the LJ under the uprights which caused us to not have good coverage of the goal line.

[Warrenkicker]

Originally posted by Forksref
We see the swinging gate from one school that uses it on the try. Most of the time they shift the line over to the snapper and go ahead with the kick. Once, last year, they snapped to a back and they ran it. It caused problems since we had the LJ under the uprights which caused us to not have good coverage of the goal line. [/B]

I don't want my guys moving under the goalposts until the team gets into a kicking formation. When they shift from the swinging gate into a normal formation then I tell LJ to move. I think we have to maintain coverage of the line until a kicking play is obvious.

Another thought I have had on this swinging gate formation is about what U does on this. If it is on a try then we don't have much downfield coverage. Does anybody keep U inside the hash with 2/3 of the field to his back? If A runs a play away from the linemen then U has his back to the play. If A throws a pass U knows where the linemen are but has no idea what is happening on the rest of the field. I think that on this special play that L or LJ should take over for watching ineligibles and let U watch the play. What do you guys think?

[Forksref]

Originally posted by Warrenkicker

I don't want my guys moving under the goalposts until the team gets into a kicking formation. When they shift from the swinging gate into a normal formation then I tell LJ to move. I think we have to maintain coverage of the line until a kicking play is obvious.

Another thought I have had on this swinging gate formation is about what U does on this. If it is on a try then we don't have much downfield coverage. Does anybody keep U inside the hash with 2/3 of the field to his back? If A runs a play away from the linemen then U has his back to the play. If A throws a pass U knows where the linemen are but has no idea what is happening on the rest of the field. I think that on this special play that L or LJ should take over for watching ineligibles and let U watch the play. What do you guys think? [/B]

On the swinging gate, we now have the R face the holder as before and the wing on his side goes under the upright. The R is responsible for any play going to his sideline. Therefore, we have both sides covered and the uprights covered. We keep our U in his regular spot for ineligible coverage. There is no perfect way for a 5-man crew to cover this but this works fairly well.

[rdfox]

In Kentucky, field mechanics for all tries and field goals snapped from within the 15 yard line call for U to step back under the goal post on the side opposite the R's position.

KHSAA insists that we not have the goal-line at the sideline uncovered in case of a fake try or blocked field goal. The call about being in the EZ or not is too critical.

[Warrenkicker]

Originally posted by rdfox
In Kentucky, field mechanics for all tries and field goals snapped from within the 15 yard line call for U to step back under the goal post on the side opposite the R's position.

KHSAA insists that we not have the goal-line at the sideline uncovered in case of a fake try or blocked field goal. The call about being in the EZ or not is too critical.

Well, as always, when in Rome......
I guess you have to give up something when there are 6 things to cover and only 5 officials but it seems like it is more likely to have holding or roughing the snapper than it is to have a broken or fake play. Up to 25 yards is a long way for U to watch for some of that.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by Warrenkicker

Well, as always, when in Rome......
I guess you have to give up something when there are 6 things to cover and only 5 officials but it seems like it is more likely to have holding or roughing the snapper than it is to have a broken or fake play. Up to 25 yards is a long way for U to watch for some of that.

I don't see why the R can't cover the snapper.