So, how'd you like a game to start like THIS?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

my initial judgement was that the action was unsporting. But I would T in either case (delay or sporting) The last scenario you posted with new finish and water is not the same. One is accidental - the other was done on purpose - knowing there would need to be a clean up.

Do they spend time cleaning up after LeBron? Does LeBron's powder-clap delay the start of his games? If not, how can you say this player knew there would need to be a clean up? Had this player done it before and delayed the start of other games? Had he done it before without any issues? Or is this the first time he tried it?

Again, I don't have a big problem with an unsporting T charged directly to the player. But I still don't see how a T for delay can be charged, especially without a prior warning. Also, there's a difference between charging a team technical for delay, and charging an unsporting T directly to the player. The team T only gets added to the team foul count, while the unsporting T also gets charged to the player, and as an indirect to the head coach, since it happened before the game started.

[chartrusepengui]

I don't give a rats butt about LeBron or his actions - as juvenile as they appear all too often. I've already told you what I would have done and the reasons. If LeBron takes the 6 steps that the NBE allow - does that also mean we should allow this in HS too?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

I don't give a rats butt about LeBron or his actions - as juvenile as they appear all too often. I've already told you what I would have done and the reasons. If LeBron takes the 6 steps that the NBE allow - does that also mean we should allow this in HS too?

Only on a crab dribble.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Only on a crab dribble.

Point taken

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

I don't give a rats butt about LeBron or his actions - as juvenile as they appear all too often. I've already told you what I would have done and the reasons. If LeBron takes the 6 steps that the NBE allow - does that also mean we should allow this in HS too?

Of course not. I'm not sure where I said that?

I was only responding to the comments about giving a T for the delay:

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

But I would T in either case (delay or sporting) The last scenario you posted with new finish and water is not the same. One is accidental - the other was done on purpose - knowing there would need to be a clean up.

How can you back up your statement about the kid knowing there would be a clean up needed? Can you know for certain the kid didn't think he would be able to do it without causing a mess that needed to be cleaned up? That's my point - if the kid watches LeBron do it before games, and there's no delay, how can you say the kid did it on purpose knowing there would be a delay?

Also, please notice the difference in rules between a T for delay, and a T for unsporting conduct. I still have yet to see anyone give me a good rules reason for charging a T for the delay.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Alright, let me ask you this - let's say the floor has a new finish put on it, and there are specific instructions to keep water off the floor until it has finished curing. Then, during a TO, A1 spills some water on the floor that causes the finish to become sticky at that spot. It takes more than a minute or two to try and dry it up, but they figure it's safer to move the game to a different court. Is that also a T, instead of a warning? If so, is it Team Technical, or is it charged to the individual? Is it an indirect to the head coach?

I guess I'm only arguing the reason for the T. If you say the T is because the game was delayed excessively, I would argue against that because there is no time limit mentioned in the rules. If you want to give the T directly to the player for unsporting conduct, I would feel more comfortable with that solution.

Instead of parsing the rules, use common sense as M&M has suggested here. The guy is drawing attention to himself and this is no different than the guy puffing out his shirt after making a basket.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Of course not. I'm not sure where I said that?

I was only responding to the comments about giving a T for the delay:

How can you back up your statement about the kid knowing there would be a clean up needed? Can you know for certain the kid didn't think he would be able to do it without causing a mess that needed to be cleaned up? That's my point - if the kid watches LeBron do it before games, and there's no delay, how can you say the kid did it on purpose knowing there would be a delay?

Also, please notice the difference in rules between a T for delay, and a T for unsporting conduct. I still have yet to see anyone give me a good rules reason for charging a T for the delay.

Maybe we shouldn't give a T or a delay - how about a sign to wear that says "idiot in uniform"? Can you say, "common sense"? And if he didn't have it, would you actually believe that no one else knew he was going to do it. Sorry - perhaps he deserves a T for being and idiot.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Can you say, "common sense"?

Careful, we don't get to use common sense; we only get to use the rules.

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Sorry - perhaps he deserves a T for being and idiot.

Ok, we agree on this. What's the signal to the table for "Being an idiot"?

[chartrusepengui]

I think you need to get a real stupid look on your face and drool out the corner of your mouth

[Jimmie24]

It is pretty simple. The kid does it to draw attention to himself. There is your T. Makes it easier for the next set of officials too. Kid pulls the jersey out to show the school name, another simple T. The rules are simple. If kids do something to draw attention to themselves we T them.

[Jimmie24]

Signal to the table for "being an idiot" is one hand in a vertical position while the other hand comes over the top in a horizontal position. Aren't most technical fouls for being an idiot?

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Maybe we shouldn't give a T or a delay - how about a sign to wear that says "idiot in uniform"? Can you say, "common sense"? And if he didn't have it, would you actually believe that no one else knew he was going to do it. Sorry - perhaps he deserves a T for being and idiot.

Don't think he should get one for being.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

I think you need to get a real stupid look on your face and drool out the corner of your mouth

Huh. That's how I look most of the time.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Huh. That's how I look most of the time.

Too many M&Ms in your mouth at one time can cause this.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Old_School

R-u-l-e 10 - 3 - 6 - a . . . . . d-e-l-a-y t-h-e g-a-m-e b-y p-r-e-v-e-n-t-i-n-g t-h-e b-a-l-l f-r-o-m b-e-i-n-g m-a-d-e l-i-v-e o-r f-r-o-m b-e-i-n-g p-u-t i-n p-l-a-y.


O-K ?

Not O-K. The rule you quote is actually 10-1-5-b and the case book examples given are nothing like this.