Charge?

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by WIRef

I will always go with the theory of trying to use preventative officiating, when possible.

As do I. I take issue with referees who talk, talk, talk and refuse to punish this act of cheating. If you have to talk to or wave-up more than 1 player in a game, it is time to apply the penalty the book calls for.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

FAKE: to pretend; simulate; to trick or deceive; anything made to appear otherwise than it actually is; counterfeit;

The situation as described by Spense was the defender "wanting to take a charge" and falling backward without any contact. The question as asked, had the referee already making the judgment that the defender was "wanting the charge" the player then fell backward without contact. You may choose to create contortions in logic to avoid punishing the faker but the information provided in this situation meets the criteria to assess the correct penalty.

You don't need to give me the definition of fake. I'm not an idiot. My point is simple. Falling backwards, even without contact, is not necessarily faking. Flopping is not a foul, faking is.

If you can't tell for sure what his intent is, it's not a fake. Personally, if you're going to call it that often, you need to call it when the shooter recoils excessively from contact as well.

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

You seem to be confusing the emotion of calling some T's with what I am stating is the level of severity of the foul. .... It does not change the fact a T is still one of the most severe penalties in the rule book, short of a flagrant ejection.
I am not confused, I am disagreeing that it is "so sever". Some referees advocate making up a blocking foul, if this occur es late in the game the opponent could very well be in the double bonus so the only extra the technical gives is a TI. But even if early in a game, two shots and the ball in trade for a player cheating to attempt to place an unearned foul on the opponent, I do not see that as overly sever nor does the Federation


What does this have to do whether or not we make the call?
You were the one who attempted to tie Faking a foul to the Crowd technical. I just pointed out that in the book NFHS does not see them as the same as they do not recommend extra caution regarding enforcement for the Faking punishment.

Are you aware of the reason the NFHS changed the penalty of excessive swinging of elbows from a T to a violation?

Yes, Your Point? ES with contact could be dealt with by existing rules for foul or flagrant contact. ES without contact did not merit the punishment that was temporarily assigned to it for a few seasons. Faking a foul is every bit as cynical an attempt to cheat as the wrong player purposely attempting free throws for his lower FT percentage team mate. I would say more cynical as it places an unmerited foul on an opponent.

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Flopping is not a foul, faking is.

Pray tell, what is Flopping?

Is not flopping the act of exaggerating the effect of contact or acting as if contact occurred to achieve the result of influencing the referee to punish the opponent for a minimal or nonexistent event?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

Yes, Your Point? ES with contact could be dealt with by existing rules for foul or flagrant contact. ES without contact did not merit the punishment that was temporarily assigned to it for a few seasons. Faking a foul is every bit as cynical an attempt to cheat as the wrong player purposely attempting free throws for his lower FT percentage team mate. I would say more cynical as it places an unmerited foul on an opponent.

I agree with this rule as written. Maybe I'm reading your wrong, but you seem to be implying this is happening far more often than I think it is.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

Pray tell, what is Flopping?

Is not flopping the act of exaggerating the effect of contact or acting as if contact occurred to achieve the result of influencing the referee to punish the opponent for a minimal or nonexistent event?

No. Flopping can be anticipating contact and falling backwards to brace for it, only to end up falling too soon. If you want to call this a T, go ahead.

So, how many of these have you called?

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I agree with this rule as written. Maybe I'm reading your wrong, but you seem to be implying this is happening far more often than I think it is.

I am not saying that it happens in every game. What I take issue with is when referees wave up or talk to players more than once in a game and refuse to apply the correct penalty.

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, how many of these have you called?

V none this season. JV +/or Freshman 2 or 3.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

I am not saying that it happens in every game. What I take issue with is when referees wave up or talk to players more than once in a game and refuse to apply the correct penalty.

I've never waved up a player, and have never given this warning more than once in a game.

I don't mind the waving up, though, as that usually is a player who fell with some contact and expects a foul. I think these players actually think they got fouled; that's not faking a foul.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

V none this season. JV +/or Freshman 2 or 3.

In one season? I don't even see it at the JV level.

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

In one season? I don't even see it at the JV level.

Well I guess we have more fakers in Middle TN.