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Spence Sat Feb 21, 2009 09:15pm

Charge?
 
Defender is planted in the lane facing the driving dribbler. Dribbler leaves his feet going for a layup. Defender keeps feet planted but starts to fade back a bit with his upper body right before contact. Contact was in the torso of the defender. I signal PC. Coach says no since the defender was "falling back."

Correct call?

grunewar Sat Feb 21, 2009 09:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence (Post 581933)
Coach says no since the defender was "falling back."

Correct call?

Are you listening to a coach? If it's as you described - correct call.

NewNCref Sat Feb 21, 2009 09:18pm

Sounds good to me. Player gained and maintained a legal guarding position.

There is no requirement that the defender be completely stationary. I'm sure BillyMac will be along with another myth busted shortly.

Spence Sat Feb 21, 2009 09:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 581934)
Are you listening to a coach? If it's as you described - correct call.

I told the coach it was right call but I wanted to verify with those that actually know rules.

grunewar Sat Feb 21, 2009 09:23pm

From the list of misunderstood rules.....compliments of Billy
 
Understand Spence. Gotcha.

17) A defensive player does not have to remain stationary to take a charge. A defender may turn away or duck to absorb contact, provided he or she has already established legal guarding position, which is both feet on the playing court and facing the opponent. The defender can always move backwards or sideways to maintain a legal guarding position and may even have one or both feet off the playing court when contact occurs. That player may legally rise vertically. If the defender is moving forward, then the contact is caused by the defender, which is a blocking foul.

just another ref Sat Feb 21, 2009 09:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence
Defender is planted in the lane facing the driving dribbler. Dribbler leaves his feet going for a layup.


Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNCref (Post 581935)
Sounds good to me. Player gained and maintained a legal guarding position.

There is no requirement that the defender be completely stationary. I'm sure BillyMac will be along with another myth busted shortly.

This is not even a LGP issue. In the OP, if the defender is planted in the lane, awaiting the dribbler, it doesn't matter which way he was facing. He still doesn't have to be completely stationary, along as is movement is away from the approaching offensive player.

JugglingReferee Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence (Post 581933)
Defender is planted in the lane facing the driving dribbler. Dribbler leaves his feet going for a layup. Defender keeps feet planted but starts to fade back a bit with his upper body right before contact. Contact was in the torso of the defender. I signal PC. Coach says no since the defender was "falling back."

Correct call?

Definitely!

just another ref Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:01pm

I actually had a play like this earlier this year. Man to man defense. Point guard beats his man and takes off just inside the free throw line. This kid had some serious hang time. But another defender was standing in the lane guarding his man the whole time, more or less facing the sideline. He looked up and saw the point guard coming at him and kind of shrunk away from the contact. Point guard's knee hit him probably in the upper kidney area, and they both crashed to the ground. Easy PC call. Coach screamed, "No, that can't be on my man! He's gotta square up to take the charge!"

BillyMac Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:47pm

Your mileage may vary.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNCref (Post 581935)
There is no requirement that the defender be completely stationary. I'm sure BillyMac will be along with another myth busted shortly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 581938)
17) A defensive player does not have to remain stationary to take a charge. A defender may turn away or duck to absorb contact, provided he or she has already established legal guarding position, which is both feet on the playing court and facing the opponent. The defender can always move backwards or sideways to maintain a legal guarding position and may even have one or both feet off the playing court when contact occurs. That player may legally rise vertically. If the defender is moving forward, then the contact is caused by the defender, which is a blocking foul.

This is the way I explain the rule to rookie officials. Once the defender establishes a legal guarding position, the player may legally move in five of eight directions: left, back left, back, back right, and right. It is illegal for the defender to move forward right, forward, or forward left, and make contact. There may be exceptions for an airborne shooter, but this keeps it simple for rookie officials.

christianH Thu Feb 26, 2009 04:43am

Even if the defender was moving backwards it would be a charge, wouldn't it?

As defender was at the right spot in time

Nevadaref Thu Feb 26, 2009 04:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by christianH (Post 583347)
Even if the defender was moving backwards it would be a charge, wouldn't it?

As defender was at the right spot in time

Coach, he was moving backwards and your player still managed to run over him! :D

Yes, PC is proper call.

Nevadaref Thu Feb 26, 2009 04:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 582067)
This is the way I explain the rule to rookie officials. Once the defender establishes a legal guarding position, the player may legally move in five of eight directions: left, back left, back, back right, and right. It is illegal for the defender to move forward right, forward, or forward left, and make contact. There may be exceptions for an airborne shooter, but this keeps it simple for rookie officials.

You missed one direction -- UP. ;)

JugglingReferee Thu Feb 26, 2009 08:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 583348)
Coach, he was moving backwards and your player still managed to run over him! :D

I often use this line with coaches, and it works every single time. :)

If I think the coach isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, I change the quote to "Coach, defender was moving backwards, which gave your player more room to avoid contact, but he still managed to run over him!"

Spence Thu Feb 26, 2009 03:03pm

What about the following scenario?

A1 driving. B1 wants to take charge but starts to fall backwards way too early. He falls to the floor (without having been contacted by A1) and as A1 lands A1 trips over B1 and goes down.

Anything on B1?

JugglingReferee Thu Feb 26, 2009 03:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence (Post 583554)
What about the following scenario?

A1 driving. B1 wants to take charge but starts to fall backwards way too early. He falls to the floor (without having been contacted by A1) and as A1 lands A1 trips over B1 and goes down.

Anything on B1?

If not a T for faking being fouled, then how about a block on B1? What do you think?


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