Importance of games

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Every game does not share the same importance to everyone, nor should it. This is an activity, not a moral display of standards. If the games did have the same level of importance, then TV would cover them and fans outside of parents would be at every game. What you are saying sounds great, but not very realistic. I tend to want to deal with realism than fantasy.

Peace

Nobody said the same level of importance. There is a huge difference between equal importance and "your game/league is silly." A moral display of standards. I have no idea what you mean, but that is not unusual.

[just another ref]

A side note about matters of relative importance and what should be on tv:
A topic brought up for discussion on ESPN First Take was whether or not Lebron James should change his number.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Nobody said the same level of importance. There is a huge difference between equal importance and "your game/league is silly." A moral display of standards. I have no idea what you mean, but that is not unusual.

Let me put it this way. You said in an earlier conversation that you did not mind showing up to a game in your uniform. I think that kind of display would be unprofessional and where I live would be considered unprofessional by most.

Just those two things illustrate a completely different approach to officiating and how you want to be perceived as compared to how I want to be perceived. If you and I can have a completely different approach to how we look before a game, why do we have to have the same approach to how we perceive a game that we work?

Peace

[deecee]

This just sounds like 2 different point of opinions here. JAR, it is unfair for you to ask people to keep their opinions to themselves on a public forum. I do, however get your point, but the greater issue here I think is that one thing a lot of officials have a hard time with is calling a game to the level of the competition.

In a youth game or middle school game how anal are we with the book being ready 10 minutes before? How often do we get the captains and then meet with coaches? How often do we stand opposite the table and observe the warmups for 15 minutes? How much LESS patience do we have with coaches at these levels rather than the varsity level?

I think that what some posters are taking personally should be taken more as a general guideline of perspective. We do not officiate all levels the same, and judgement skews from one side to the other depending on what level you are officiating. Every game I officiate I take pride in and in most cases I hustle until the very end. There have been occassions where I slacked off, but I was still capable of officiating that game at my slacked off state as if I had been hustling or compared to some other officials who might have to work harder.

And I don't think that anyone looks down on an official for the level he works. We just look down on those levels of play after our own experience has taught us that the participants are a bunch of yahoos.

[JRutledge]

Deecee,

Very well said.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by deecee

This just sounds like 2 different point of opinions here. JAR, it is unfair for you to ask people to keep their opinions to themselves on a public forum. I do, however get your point, but the greater issue here I think is that one thing a lot of officials have a hard time with is calling a game to the level of the competition.

In a youth game or middle school game how anal are we with the book being ready 10 minutes before? How often do we get the captains and then meet with coaches? How often do we stand opposite the table and observe the warmups for 15 minutes? How much LESS patience do we have with coaches at these levels rather than the varsity level?

I think that what some posters are taking personally should be taken more as a general guideline of perspective. We do not officiate all levels the same, and judgement skews from one side to the other depending on what level you are officiating. Every game I officiate I take pride in and in most cases I hustle until the very end. There have been occassions where I slacked off, but I was still capable of officiating that game at my slacked off state as if I had been hustling or compared to some other officials who might have to work harder.

And I don't think that anyone looks down on an official for the level he works. We just look down on those levels of play after our own experience has taught us that the participants are a bunch of yahoos.

The point of the keep it yourself part was simply trying to discourage derogatory remarks, which might result in negative publicity that we as a group don't need. As far as different approaches to officiating different levels, I personally find it a relief to call varsity games after calling youth league games. When I was first approached about officiating, it was at the jr. high level. I expressed doubts about my own ability to do the job and was told, "Just keep them from killing each other." This was said jokingly, but the idea is based in fact. The biggest problem I see at low levels is officials who will not blow the whistle. This can be a rookie plagued by uncertainty, but it could just as easily be a certified official daydreaming about D1 and thinking "this game doesn't matter."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The point of the keep it yourself part was simply trying to discourage derogatory remarks, which might result in negative publicity that we as a group don't need. As far as different approaches to officiating different levels, I personally find it a relief to call varsity games after calling youth league games. When I was first approached about officiating, it was at the jr. high level. I expressed doubts about my own ability to do the job and was told, "Just keep them from killing each other." This was said jokingly, but the idea is based in fact. The biggest problem I see at low levels is officials who will not blow the whistle. This can be a rookie plagued by uncertainty, but it could just as easily be a certified official daydreaming about D1 and thinking "this game doesn't matter."

Or it could be an official who calls every bit of contact and knows nothing about advantage/disadvantage and has both teams in the double bonus in the first and third quarters.

[Stat-Man]

For me and my perspective, the lower level games can be an enigma at times.

I love the lower levels because the kids are still young enough that they usually play hard all game long from start to finish and are eager to try to learn the game.

As I was telling our AD after our last game this weekend, It's just frustrating to encounter adults that thing it's all about them and not the kids. Coaches who feel that the rule requiring no starters in with a 30 point lead; officials who show no mechnics, no hustle, or admit they don't know and/or won't enforce the league specific rules; and the parents who think their child will be the next pro superstar even though the kid is 10 year old are enough to make anyone (myself included) ask themselves "Why am I at these games?"

I also realize that what happens in a CYO JV game with players in the 9-10 year old range is small potatoes in the grand scheme of life, the people involved -- coaches, game crew (such as myself), etc. -- should at least try to give a good effort and try to do as good a job as possible and ensure the games are played according to the rules (ideally, not just to the letter, but also in the spirit). Yes, I will admit I am a bit particular about subs coming to the timer/scorer to check in and not just waiting at the far ends of the table, but only because I want to get them in the good habits early.

(/my $0.02)

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let me put it this way. You said in an earlier conversation that you did not mind showing up to a game in your uniform. I think that kind of display would be unprofessional and where I live would be considered unprofessional by most.

Just those two things illustrate a completely different approach to officiating and how you want to be perceived as compared to how I want to be perceived. If you and I can have a completely different approach to how we look before a game, why do we have to have the same approach to how we perceive a game that we work?

Peace

Okay, I think I get it now. The fact that you wear "nice clothes" to a game raises you to a level of "professionalism" which, coupled with your perceptions of games that you work gives you the right to speak in a condescending tone to others about games that they play and the officials who work them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Okay, I think I get it now. The fact that you wear "nice clothes" to a game raises you to a level of "professionalism" which, coupled with your perceptions of games that you work gives you the right to speak in a condescending tone to others about games that they play and the officials who work them.

Do not twist what I said. I simply said that my approach is clearly different than your approach. And personally what I wear in certain situations in and outside of officiating is very (extremely) important to me. I would not for example wear jeans to officiating a high school game. This is my way (BTW I am not the only one that feels this way), that is fine with me. I realize everyone is not going to have my approach to what they wear or how pressed their pants are, or how shined their shoes will be. Then again I want to look nice for far more reasons than just professionalism of officiating. I do so because that is how I was raised. And when I am going to do a job of any kind, I want to look appropriate to the event. Looking like I just walked out of bed is not appropriate to me. But you do not see me condemning people for what they do now do you?

Now if that is my approach to what I do and you do not approach it that way, that does not mean we look at this or how "important" a game is no matter how many times you say it. All games clearly are not important to me, because I choose to only work certain levels no matter how much is offered to work those games. I am fine with this, why is it hard for you and others to understand other distinctions people make about what they do when they officiated.

Peace

[JPaco54]

I am fine with it and I get it. I don't expect people to all follow the same pattern or my pattern. I respect everyone's opinion because I have learned many moons ago, it's not all about me and I am not always right. There are a lot of great people in this world and I would like to learn and grow from those that God puts beside me to work and live with it. And maybe I take my rec games too seriously like I said, but for now, I get charged up for them, I look forward to getting on the court with the kids and I like the environment and I hope and pray that I bring my best out there for them. I am also getting paid for this and representing my association as well.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

.... you do not see me condemning people for what they do now do you?

Depends on what you consider to be condemnation.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not wear a uniform to a game much more than weather considerations. It looks stupid to me and looks like anyone can walk off the street and work the game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Depends on what you consider to be condemnation.

The bottom line to this, no matter what you say or what I say, it is not going to change what we do. If you want to look like you just walked off the truck, be my guest. At least I know you are not going to change. Just like you should realize no matter how many ways you say it, it is not going to change everyone's approach to games. All games are not equally important and they never will be.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

All games are not equally important and they never will be.

You're right, Rut. All the games I work are important. All the games worked by others are not.