Shot Clock Backcourt Violation

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Why would you say this? The rule says they're allowed 10 seconds. It doesn't say that they are allowed to be in the backcourt until the official counts to 10. If you have definite knowledge that they've had control in the backcourt for 10 seconds, SOMEBODY has to call it. If the Trail is distracted by the backcourt pressure, then who else can call it? (Hint: the Lead. )

I would not advocate the Lead calling this ever. If they are calling this or looking for this, they are not watching their responsibilities. They have other things to watch and they do not know if the ball was started properly and the NCAA Casebook even has a play where the clock was not started correctly. And if the Trail is distracted, they need not be on the game. Their main job is to watch the ball count and make sure there is a violation. If they cannot do that, you do not need a Trail in this situation.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

And to answer your question about doing it without the shot clock, I would say that the shot clock simply makes it easier for the Lead to help. I would not expect the Lead to check the game clock after every made basket. It's a much harder sell to the coach without the shot clock, no doubt. I wouldn't expect help from the Lead without it. Although, if we were coming out of a time-out and the game clock showed 0:47, that would be pretty easy to explain.

This would be about as silly as a Lead calling a BC violation while on the end line.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

We're talking most likely about a pressing situation. So the Trail has more than just a 1-on-1 matchup to worry about. So that leave fewer than 8 other players for the Lead to watch. Secondly, if the Lead also has too much to watch, then obviously, I'm not going to say that he/she should be clockwatching as well. But it's not that hard to look up from midcourt and see the shot clock. I would expect that -- even in a press -- the Lead would be able to sneak a peek at the shot clock to help out with the 10-seconds.

We are just going to have to disagree on this one. I have never heard anyone at the college level advocate such craziness.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

You must have missed my "two big ifs". IF you know that control was established immediately, and IF you know that the shot clock was started properly, then there's no difference between the shot clock and the 10-second count. That's the situation I'm talking about.

If it takes somebody 15 or 20 seconds to call a 10-second violation, then shame on them. That's completely unacceptable and I would BEG my partner to help me if that were me.

Why not have other officials start calling other official's lines? After all they might have knowledge of what happen. Let us throw out all the mechanics, because officials see things they think they know?

Peace

[mutantducky]

can someone mark these down. I just want to be sure

HS
Shot Clock beings when...
10 Second count begins when...

College- Same

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

can someone mark these down. I just want to be sure

HS
Shot Clock beings when...
10 Second count begins when...

College- Same

NCAA:
MEN: 10 second count begins once team control is established INBOUNDS.
Women: there is no time limit in the backcourt
For both men and women, when play is restarted with a throw-in, the shot clock starts when the ball is first touched inbounds. When play is restarted from a FT or a jumpball, the shot clock starts once a team establishes control. Following an unsuccessful try for goal, the shot clock starts once a team establishes control.

NFHS:
The backcourt count starts once team control is established.

There is no shot clock rule. A few states have instituted one on their own without the approval of the NFHS. These states have to write their own rules for the operation of the shot clock. Most of them simply follow the NCAA rule.