Shot Clock Backcourt Violation

[dbking]

The shot clock starts on a throw in when it is legally touched inbounds. It does not have to have an offensive player touch. There is team control. Therefore the shot clock starts on the touch, either offense or defense.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dbking

The shot clock starts on a throw in when it is legally touched inbounds. It does not have to have an offensive player touch. There is team control. Therefore the shot clock starts on the touch, either offense or defense.

I did not say it had to be just the "offensive player that touches" starts the game clock or shot clock. That is your claim. But starting the clock and the starting of the ten second count is not the same thing. And you did not show any rule that suggested the situation was simultaneous.

Peace

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by dbking

The shot clock starts on a throw in when it is legally touched inbounds. It does not have to have an offensive player touch. There is team control. Therefore the shot clock starts on the touch, either offense or defense.

1)Team control is established, is when the shot clock should start for all situations, there is team control on an inbound in NCAA, so the clock starts on the legal touch on the floor of an inbound pass, however, the ten second count does not start until there is established player control by a team in their backcourt. So several seconds may have elapsed off the shot clock before the ball is controlled by the inbounding team in their backcourt so 24 would not be accurate as a guidline or a backcourt violation.

2) No team control on a throw in in NFHS, so the assumption would be that the shot clock would not start until the ball is in someones team control - then the shot clock migt be in sink with the 10 second count. However, the lead shouldn't be watching the ball that closely and make a call at 24.

Someone from California or a federation shotclock state step up and establish the parameters when the clock tarts on an inbound pass.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

1)Team control is established, is when the shot clock should start for all situations, there is team control on an inbound in NCAA, so the clock starts on the legal touch on the floor of an inbound pass, however, the ten second count does not start until there is established player control by a team in their backcourt. So several seconds may have elapsed off the shot clock before the ball is controlled by the inbounding team in their backcourt so 24 would not be accurate as a guidline or a backcourt violation.

.

Why? There is team control and the ball is in the backcourt....the count is on. It doesn't require player control inbounds since team control began during the throwin. The shot clock and the 10 count start the moment the ball is touched and it is a violation when the clock shows 25/24 (depending on the clock).

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why? There is team control and the ball is in the backcourt....the count is on. It doesn't require player control inbounds since team control began during the throwin. The shot clock and the 10 count start the moment the ball is touched and it is a violation when the clock shows 25/24 (depending on the clock).

what Nevada said
the count begins once team control is established inbounds that can not happen until a player from the in bound team gains control in the back court,
the shot clock however started once the ball was touched there is the difference and why 24 is not a good number in this scenario.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why? There is team control and the ball is in the backcourt....the count is on. It doesn't require player control inbounds since team control began during the throwin. The shot clock and the 10 count start the moment the ball is touched and it is a violation when the clock shows 25/24 (depending on the clock).

Because the NCAA rule specifically says "inbounds player."

"An inbounds player (and his team) shall not be in continuous control of a
ball that is in his back court for 10 consecutive seconds."

The official is not to begin the 10 second count until AN INBOUNDS PLAYER has established control of the ball.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Because the NCAA rule specifically says "inbounds player."

"An inbounds player (and his team) shall not be in continuous control of a
ball that is in his back court for 10 consecutive seconds."

The official is not to begin the 10 second count until AN INBOUNDS PLAYER has established control of the ball.

While that may be the wa they want it, that is NOT what the rule says.
The fact that an inbounds player touches the ball that is in team control makes it an inbounds player (and his team) in control.

The INBOUNDS player part is merely to indicate that the count doesn't start until it is touched inbounds even though there is team control during the throwin.

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

While that may be the wa they want it, that is NOT what the rule says.
The fact that an inbounds player touches the ball that is in team control makes it an inbounds player (and his team) in control.

The INBOUNDS player part is merely to indicate that the count doesn't start until it is touched inbounds even though there is team control during the throwin.

Based on this case play I think you may have a point.

A.R. 203. (Men) The game clock indicates that 1:13 is left in the second half when Team A makes a throw-in after a charged timeout. Team A is charged with a 10-second back-court violation, but the game clock shows that only eight seconds were used. The official timer indicates that the game clock started when the throw-in was touched by a player on the playing court.

RULING: Violation. Team B shall be awarded a throw-in at a
designated spot nearest to where the violation occurred. Rule 2-12 does not provide for the correction of an error made in the referee’s counting of seconds. (Rule 9-10 and 7-5.1)

Why would they state that the "game clock started when the throw-in was touched by a player on the playing court"? This implies that the 10 second count starts when the ball is touched by a player on the court.

[mutantducky]

ergh I would like to see this cleared up. Maybe the rule book isn't clear about it because I have definitely seen 10 violations called with the count starting once the ball has been touched without control.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

This implies that the 10 second count starts when the ball is touched by a player on the court.

No it does not - it implies (correctly) that the game clock starts when the ball is touched on the inbounds pass - it also implies that the official counts really fast. other than that it doesn't tell you much, that touch could have been a pass to a teammate of the thrower.

this case play only deals with the fact that if an official's count is off it is not something that can be corrected.