Closely Guarded Count by the Lead

[mick]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It wasn't a camp that strictly adhered to NFHS and NCAA mechanics, then. Which is typical, in my experience.

Here, too.
CCA officials are teaching the camps and their CCA mechanics.
It's easy to understand why so many Fed officials are taking CCA mechanics onto the high school floor.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mick

Here, too.
CCA officials are teaching the camps and their CCA mechanics.
It's easy to understand why so many Fed officials are taking CCA mechanics onto the high school floor.

CCA Women's officials. CCA Men's Mechanics are almost identical to NF Mechanics and procedures.

Peace

[mick]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

CCA Women's officials. CCA Men's Mechanics are almost identical to NF Mechanics and procedures.

Peace

Yer right, Rut.
...Almost identical.
And that seems to be close enough for the college refs.
I'm thinking they are not bringing their Fed mechanics to high school.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

CCA Women's officials. CCA Men's Mechanics are almost identical to NF Mechanics and procedures.

Peace

Not true. NFHS mechanics are more closely aligned with CCA Women's than Men's. Look at the floor coverage diagrams. The "lead counting" is another place where the NFHS mechanics align more closely to Women's mechanics.

Also, we go tableside after a foul for NFHS games. Same as the Women's officials.

The key Women's only coverage is the corner and 3-point responsibility of the lead. NFHS aligns with the men on this.

[mick]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Not true. NFHS mechanics are more closely aligned with CCA Women's than Men's. Look at the floor coverage diagrams. The "lead counting" is another place where the NFHS mechanics align more closely to Women's mechanics.

Also, we go tableside after a foul for NFHS games. Same as the Women's officials.

The key Women's only coverage is the corner and 3-point responsibility of the lead. NFHS aligns with the men on this.

...Other different stuff that I distantly remember
Long switches
Rotations keys
One finger up
Relaying chops
Holding and calling subs
Last shot responsibility

[I haven't seen a college game in so long, I may have kicked some of these.]

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Not true. NFHS mechanics are more closely aligned with CCA Women's than Men's. Look at the floor coverage diagrams. The "lead counting" is another place where the NFHS mechanics align more closely to Women's mechanics.

Almost every signal and foul reporting is the same at the NCAA Men's level and NF level. The coverage area is the same except the NF took away the Dual coverage area (but lead always had the same responsibility). Last second shot coverage is the same. No two hand reporting or walking and talking. No 3 point shot attempt from the Lead (the same as Men's CCA).

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Also, we go tableside after a foul for NFHS games.

That was a change just a year ago. Men's went back to the old way which I do not completely disagree with.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The key Women's only is corner and 3-point responsibility of the lead. NFHS aligns with the men on this.

I could go into more and more example. The point that I was trying to make, when I go to NCAA Men's camps, I do not have to spend time switching back and forth with regular every day mechanics that I would use at the NF level. I when I work with Women's officials, they are almost always trying to bring down their mechanics like locking down for the last second shot and only having the Lead rotate but go back if the ball goes to the other end. Actually it is easier to work with Men's college officials because they are not trying to change the entire philosophy of the mechanics because they work that level.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I could go into more and more example. The point that I was trying to make, when I go to NCAA Men's camps, I do not have to spend time switching back and forth with regular every day mechanics that I would use at the NF level. I when I work with Women's officials, they are almost always trying to bring down their mechanics like locking down for the last second shot and only having the Lead rotate but go back if the ball goes to the other end. Actually it is easier to work with Men's college officials because they are not trying to change the entire philosophy of the mechanics because they work that level.

I see what you mean. If you work men's mechanics, you will do some things differently and nobody will notice, really. Which is what I said eariler when we were talking about counting.

You hit onto a sore point with me, actually. All the officials in this area want to "lock down" at some point in HS games. Why? Last second shot DOES NOT PASS on a rotation in NCAAM and NFHS games. What's the point?

You rotate over if you need to. If I'm the center, I can step out and still handle the last second shot. I can also chew gum and officiate at the same time.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

You hit onto a sore point with me, actually. All the officials in this area want to "lock down" at some point in HS games. Why? Last second shot DOES NOT PASS on a rotation in NCAAM and NFHS games. What's the point?

This is something I always seem to talk about in my pre-game when I am the Referee. The play is more important than the last second shot. If there is a foul that is missed because we want to leave one officials with 8 players, that is going to be much worse than if the shot got off. I do not know about you, but I do not get too many plays near the end of the quarter where the last second shot is the deciding factor in any game. I would rather have two officials watching the entire play, then have one official guess or an official out of position guess on something that could have been called.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

You rotate over if you need to. If I'm the center, I can step out and still handle the last second shot. I can also chew gum and officiate at the same time.

You would think others cannot do those two things without falling over themeselves.

Peace

[Adam]

My last association wanted to lock down, also. I've not heard a single official mention here, nor have I brought it up.

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is fine, but the Lead needs to concentrate on the contact, not whether if they are closely guarded. Let the Trail or Center take care of that. This is not Women's college basketball or the NBA where a count only applies in a very small percentage of situations. I would never advocate such a mechanic and think that you are weakening the crew by having the lead take care of something that other officials on the crew can do.

The Trail has to judge contact AND have a closely guarded count when the ball is in his/her primary. I don't understand why the Lead can't do the same thing. Why don't you advocate the Center official counting the closely guarded count when the ball is in Trail's Primary?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And if you think (not you personally, anyone in general) you cannot ever have more than two sets of eyes on the basketball player, then you are not aware of how the entire mechanic works. Just my opinion of course.

Agreed.

[Texas Aggie]

CCA Men's Mechanics are almost identical to NF Mechanics and procedures.

Signal mechanics, perhaps, but not floor mechanics. None of the three, in my view, are really close to being "identical."

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I never do this as the Lead in 3-whistle mechanics.

I agree.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

The Trail has to judge contact AND have a closely guarded count when the ball is in his/her primary. I don't understand why the Lead can't do the same thing. Why don't you advocate the Center official counting the closely guarded count when the ball is in Trail's Primary?

Most counts are start above the 3 point line and might continue. And BTW, the mechanic has the Center count if the count continues in there area. I just think you take the Lead from their primary responsibility and that is post play. And that is why we do not advocate that silliness.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Signal mechanics, perhaps, but not floor mechanics. None of the three, in my view, are really close to being "identical."

The Lead's area in CCA Men's and NCAA is exactly the same. The only difference is NF took away the dual area for the Trail. Everything else is pretty much the same.

Peace

[rwest]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The Lead's area in CCA Men's and NCAA is exactly the same. The only difference is NF took away the dual area for the Trail. Everything else is pretty much the same.

Peace

When the ball goes below the free-throw line extended, even beyond the three point line, the lead is on ball. In that case the trail needs to pick up action in the lane. I understand your argument JRut. I realize that there is action in the lane that is going to be hard for the trail to see. However, there are plays that are just as hard for the trail to officiate when the ball is below the free-throw line extended. Having the lead open up on the play and officiate is not such a bad idea, as long as the trail picks up the leads lane responsibilities. Its also not a bad idea in this case if the C reaches a little to pick up what the trail can't see.