technical fouls from a coaches perspective

[beachbum]

Coaches,

When you get a "T" in a basketball game, for something you deserve( I'm not talking about an illegal substitution). How do you feel about it the next day? Especially if you continued to voice your disapproval of the call during the game.

Do you still think the official is a jerk and doesn't know what they are doing, or do you respect him or her alittle more for standing up and enforcing the rules of the sport?, or lastly do you just move on and forget it?

[biz]

I've received 2 T's in my career.

The first was in a game in which we were completely over matched. The officials waved in a sub that reported to the table long after the warning horn sounded following a time out. I reminded them that no subs are allowed after the warning horn and they both looked at me like I had two heads and then they looked at each other and started to come together to discuss it. Obviously they had no idea what I was talking about. The opposing coach is holding his sub at the table waiting for a decision and I turned to him and said (loud enough for the officials to hear), "Tim, just send him in, these two don't know the rules anyway." That got me the T. I sat quietly the rest of the game...I knew I "earned" the T but I didn't feel bad about it...those two were incompetent.

The 2nd I was actually trying to be funny. The official who whacked me was someone I knew by name, but didn't know per se. 1st half my pg got hit on the forearm on a pull up jumper loud enough to hear the contact. Lead became trail in front of my bench and I said (only loud enough for him to hear), "Sammy, you didn't hear the contact? My grandmother in the last row who's 85 heard that one." I was shocked when he blew the whistle and whacked me, and as I took my seat I told him, "sheez, I was just trying to be funny."

I've actually felt bad, and apologized later, for things I've said and haven't been t'd up for though...Heat of the moment stuff, where I'll say it and then say to myself, boy if the roles were reversed I would have definitely called a T.

[CoachCER]

I have had 5 Ts in 18 years, and I still remember every one of them. Three of them I knew I was probably going to get T'd, and had no problem with the result of my actions. No bad blood between me and the officials the remainder of the game, and life moved on.

The other two...not so much.

One of the coaches in my travel program gets T'd a lot (too much I think), but they don't phase him, and he is the kind of guy will shake your hand and say good game 10 minutes later.

[TrojanHorse]

I have had 3 T's in 5 years..Last year was my last in a division championship, I didnt think we were getting the calls we should when drove the basket and I basically started to ride him..It took about a quarter, but when he whacked me, I turned and sat down..he didnt need to tell me that I lost my box..

[UmpJM]

I wouldn't know.

In 13 years of coaching basketball, I never received a "T". Never saw the point of it.

JM

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

I wouldn't know.

In 13 years of coaching basketball, I never received a "T". Never saw the point of it.

JM

That's one reason you've been able to transition so easily to officiating.

[williebfree]

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse

...Basically, I started to ride him..It took about a quarter, but when he whacked me, I turned and sat down..he didn't need to tell me that I lost my box..

This is not meant to focus on TrojanHorse, but toward coaches in general:

I am dumbstruck with the mindset of a coach who thinks s/he is going to improve the official's performance by publicly berating him/her. Common sense would imply you can only make the situation worse by this behavior.

[TrojanHorse]

Originally Posted by williebfree

This is not meant to focus on TrojanHorse, but toward coaches in general:

I am dumbstruck with the mindset of a coach who thinks s/he is going to improve the official's performance by publicly berating him/her. Common sense would imply you can only make the situation worse by this behavior.

You know, at the time it was to make a point. 42 second into the game, this official comes to tell me #40 is getting out of hand, he is not going to be out there long. I asked what he is doing so i can address it. I get no answer, the kid pick up two quick ones. I sub him out. I put him back in to start the 2Q, gets his third quickly. All fouls from the same official. I just thought a point had to be made is all.

I have officiated and know how all of this works. I used to officiate with some guys who instead of taking care of the coach would look for fouls on the stud player or the only guard on the team just to make a point. I did not like it then and I do not think most of you all would either.

[williebfree]

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse

... I have officiated and know how all of this works. I used to officiate with some guys who instead of taking care of the coach would look for fouls on the stud player or the only guard on the team just to make a point. I did not like it then and I do not think ost of you all would either.

TrojanHorse:
As I mentioned in my original response, I am not "calling you out." In fact, I have cause to believe you do an admirable job as a coach and official. I just wanted to identifying a group of "coaches" who insist on making a scene and you offered the context (in one instance) that applied to mindset I wanted to discuss.

Additionally, I, too, am embarrassed for the the avocation of officiating when people put on the stripes and make a mockery of the position. Unethical behavior such as you described above seriously frustrates me and all others who genuinely officiate for the love of the game and the positive values it can promote.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by williebfree

This is not meant to focus on TrojanHorse, but toward coaches in general:

I am dumbstruck with the mindset of a coach who thinks s/he is going to improve the official's performance by publicly berating him/her. Common sense would imply you can only make the situation worse by this behavior.

RANT ON
I think refs are handy and lots of people have no self control. Kinda of like my new puppy. He thinks he can do what he wants when he wants. My 3 older dogs and myself are there to let him know what the deal is.

I've long ago gotten over people behaving badly so coaches acting up doesn't upset me as much as seeing refs just take the abuse.

About a year and a half into this gig I knew one of two things were gonna happen. one, I quit or two I learn how to deal with the coaches. Through blind luck I stumbled onto this forum and chose to take care of business. I learned how to deal with coaches and I do.

The fact that I'm willing to give T's make ALOT of my partners uncomfortable. If I had a dollar for every time I heard "we don't want to be looking for T's." well I'd have more money then I do. I don't have to look far for T's, thats for sure.

I'm less concerned with the coaches then I am with refs who just let themselves be bullied in gyms nationwide. I also realize I have the advantage of working in a large ASSOC., 120 schools, so I don't have to worry about being "blacklisted" and losing games.I also work for an assignor who believes we let WAY TOO MUCH go from the coaches. He has always had my back.....

RANT OFF

[williebfree]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

... I'm less concerned with the coaches then I am with refs who just let themselves be bullied in gyms nationwide. I also realize I have the advantage of working in a large ASSOC., 120 schools, so I don't have to worry about being "blacklisted" and losing games. I also work for an assignor who believes we let WAY TOO MUCH go from the coaches. He has always had my back.....

I agree about the discouragingly large number of officials who are fearful (or don't chose for whatever reason) to use one of the most effective tools at the official's disposal.

I am also glad to see you recognize that there are significant factors that weigh-in on an official's on court decisions. Sadly, in WI, the coaches submit their ratings of officials. I have observed coaches enter "Awful," "Sucks" etc... by the Officials name in their score book before it leaves the table. Needless to say, I am NOT a proponent of our state Association's evaluation "System."

[imagomer]

I've been awarded one, in more than 10 years of coaching MS and HS. Got it/desrved it for being an obnoxious fan, begging for calls while I was coaching, about 7 years ago. "That" me probably thought the official had been trigger-happy. Since then, I had the fortunate opp to officiate some MS games, HS summer league, and kids' and adults' rec league for about 14 months. That experience and this forum taught me to "coach the team" and not to "evaluate the refs." Nowadays, I'm sure if I earned a T, I would admit I had earned it and apologize to the official afterwards. It would probably straighten me up for a long while. And to answer the question, I would say it would remind me to respect the official more properly. A little like some would say that service of some sort or travel would make an American be more appreciative of his or her own country, I would say that working the dark side would make almost every coach a lot more appreciative of the roles of coaches and officials, and would make most coaches better coaches.

On the other side of the implied question, if I observed a coach abusing an official and the official failed to whack, my opinion of the official probably would drop a little, depending on a lot of other factors, too.

[Camron Rust]

I dont coach basketball but I do coach soccer. I've received the equivalent of a T (a card) only once in 11 seasons.

Back when I did coach, I got three T's in one season. First one, opposing player was in-bounds, and bounced the ball once out of bounds, and the official missed it. I made a remark to him when he was in front of me that the ball was three feet OOB and actually bounced off of one of the bench players; he T'd me up. As I reflect on that, I earned it because my tone may have been scarcastic when I said it.

The second and third T's should have been just one, but I blew my stack big time, yelled "this is bull****!" and kicked a chair all at once. Both officials blew their whistle and signaled T and decided that since they both had a T on me, I collected two T's and an ejection. I disagreed with them, but made a exhibitionist exit (ala Bobby Knight) and got my boys fired up. This whole thing ended up leading to me being suspended from our next game. As I look back on it, I was young and stupid, and definitely deserved a T on that.

[bigdogrunnin]

When I coached, I got 4 T's in 3 years.

One, my buddy was officiating our game. His partner had not a clue. His partner administered FT. Kid bounced the ball 3-4 times then lost it. The kid WALKED into the lane, picked up the ball, went back to the line and shot the FT. I asked him, is that not a violation. He replied no, and told me that was enough. Yep, I went ballistic. My buddy stuck me. We still run together periodically, and get a good laugh about that night.

Two, away game. Officials are not very good, and their effort was horrible. My kids getting the raw end of more than a couple calls. Home coach, actually stands up, walks toward me, and says, "Coach, I am really sorry about [the officiating]." I finally yelled at one of them that he was horrible. He started to give the T, then stopped. I glared at him and yelled, "HORRIBLE!" That did it. (I earned it.)

Three, same "partner" official as in sit. one, only HIS partner was actually worse. Visitors scores, my team inbounds the ball, and I request a time out. Nothing. His partner WALKS in front me (max. 5 ft. away), I ask for a TO x2. Nothing. Now I start yelling, "TIME OUT!!" (x2-3) NOTHING. Finally, the lead on the other end of the court grants the TO, then gives me a T for yelling at the officials.

Four, we are away. We start the game with 9 players. Home starts with 5 total players. Teams are pretty even talent wise, so I figure it should be a good game. That is until the officials showed up. BOTH from that town, BOTH graduated from that school, and one worked for the school district. They let them play, and it got rough. I asked for them to tighten it down, to no avail. Twice I requested TO's, but was not granted them, even though my player was holding the ball, standing near mid-court with no one within 15 ft. Fouls at end of 1st half (12-3). I know, I know, don't count, just call. 2nd half was worse. Foul count 19-1!! I lost it. I was begging for the T, and he finally gave it, with about 4-5 minutes to play. I begged him to give me a second one too, because I wanted their behinds to take a visit to the State Association's Office. (We video taped our games, so I had all the proof I needed.) Alas, I couldn't get it. One of the ref's did tell me afterward that he was going to throw me out of the gym though. I laughed, told him to go away. (Note: Varsity game, the ref who T'd me was sitting in the stand right behind the home team, cheering them on to victory!) Still gets me a little unnerved.

Obviously, I didn't last in coaching. ha ha