Giving coaches technical fouls

[Jimgolf]

I've noticed that some refs seem proud of T'ing up coaches, while others seem equally proud of rarely doing so. Please consider that many times the coach wants to get T'ed up for some arcane reason. See this story for an AAU coach who credits getting an unsportsmanlike technical foul for his team's victory: http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/talla...ts/8973398.htm

"I didn't think things were going our way - not only get the message to the officials but also get the message to our kids," said Smith, who was assessed the technical for a tirade following a non-call on the offensive end with the game deadlocked at 46-46. "They know how to respond."

So you may actually be doing the coach a favor! I wonder if he gave the ref the game ball.

[mick]

Originally posted by Jimgolf

So you may actually be doing the coach a favor! I wonder if he gave the ref the game ball.

Jimgolf,
I've heard coaches do that (ie, say they did it for the team inspiration.) I just don't believe it.

I think they are trying to excuse their idiocy, inappropriate behavior and lack of motivational and teaching skills.

Bovine Scat!

mick

[SMEngmann]

From a coach's perspective, there are always times when a coach feels that he needs to stand up in some way for his team. Perhaps the players on his team felt they were getting the short end of some calls and that caused them to lose focus on what they needed to do to win the game. When the coach gets involved in that way, one of two things can happen: the players will realize that the coach will take care of discussing calls, or the players will get more distracted and the parents at this level will lower themselves to the level of the coach. This kind of tactic is only effective in sparking a team if the coach is honest with his team, generally respectful toward the officials and he has the respect of his players. If a typical "howler monkey" attempts this, in my experience, it causes the players to further lose focus and look for excuses to fail. The way the article presents it, though, it seems as if this is a viable tactic. It is not, and it can only work in very limited circumstances.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Jimgolf
I've noticed that some refs seem proud of T'ing up coaches, while others seem equally proud of rarely doing so.

Put me down as "none of the above". Technical fouls are just another foul that comes up in the course of a game. Every referee sets their own personal line or limit. When it's crossed, then that's when they're gonna start T'ing people up. Pride doesn't enter into the equation usually. You just do what you have to do to keep the game under control, and make sure that it's being played in at least a half-way sporting manner. You also have to differentiate between what the usual expectations for conduct reasonably should be at each age level too. Certainly, you call the game much differently when you're dealing with NCAA level players vs. middle school kids.

Personally, the coach of a 14 and under team, as in this article, is gonna get very little slack from me. If he wants a T to prove some arcane point to himself, his kids or parents- hey, that's fine with me. I'm gonna keep him real happy- and in a hurry too. He's also gonna sit his butt on the bench from then on, and he's not gonna get up when he's not supposed to. And if he's planning on making any further points to me, he'd better plan on doing so from the parking lot. I just personally believe that the coaches of the younger age groups should never be worrying about making any kind of point to the officials. They got too much to worry about actually coaching their own kids, without wasting any of their valuable time on us.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 22nd, 2004 at 05:58 PM]

[Mark Padgett]

I read the story. If this guy can only "inspire" his team by behaving badly, he's pathetic.

Would anyone suggest this method be used in the classroom?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Would anyone suggest this method be used in the classroom?

AMEN!!

[Rickref]

Inspire his team? Maybe he quit trying to call the game and actually started coaching. This has been my experience with coaches at lower levels.

[zebraman]

I don't get off on giving T's, nor do I mind giving out a deserved one. They are just a tool for us to use to control a game if required.

I highly doubt that the AAU coach of a 14-year old team intended to get a T to fire up his team. However, it makes for a better-sounding quote than, "we were getting outplayed and outcoached. Rather than trying positive methods, I took my frustration out on the officials because I didn't want to accept responsibility."

Z

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
I
Would anyone suggest this method be used in the classroom?

Well, only from very experienced teachers (like myself). I have found that public humiliation and throwing temper tantrums in the classroom serve to motivate my 7th grade students to aspire to heights they never dreamed of...well, actually they just sit there in stunned silence - but quiet is good!!

PS: Please note that this was very much tongue in cheek!!

PPS: I am becoming more and more convinced that too many officials do not give T's when they are warranted, and too many absolutely refuse to give the second one when it is richly deserved...as JR stated - it should be just another call in our games...

[TimTaylor]

Originally posted by zebraman
I don't get off on giving T's, nor do I mind giving out a deserved one. They are just a tool for us to use to control a game if required.

I highly doubt that the AAU coach of a 14-year old team intended to get a T to fire up his team. However, it makes for a better-sounding quote than, "we were getting outplayed and outcoached. Rather than trying positive methods, I took my frustration out on the officials because I didn't want to accept responsibility."

Z

I agree. When I walk in to do a game there are two things that I remind myself of:

The first is a piece of advice from someone with much more experience than I - "remember that you and your partner are in all probability the only two people in the gym that are completely impartial and have no vested interest in the outcome of the game".

The second is that an important part of my job as an official is to act as the voice of reason in an otherwise chaotic world. Be above the chaos, keep your cool, don't react emotionally.

As Z-MAN said, T's are simply another tool that we have at our disposal to deal with conduct that crosses the line. I neither relish nor regret assessing a T when it is deserved - it's simply part of the job we undertake.

[mick]

Originally posted by rockyroad

PPS: I am becoming more and more convinced that too many officials do not give T's when they are warranted, and too many absolutely refuse to give the second one when it is richly deserved...as JR stated - it should be just another call in our games...

dj,

The ejection mechanic is unclear.

The paperwork is daunting.

Officials are not trained to do this.

Make it a POE, and watch 'em leave.
mick

[JRutledge]

but that is not the real world. We talk more about the Ts that take place in games then we do a single handchecking foul call in the first few minutes of the game. So in my opinion they are very different. They also bring more questions from assignors and evaluators than any other call. So I really do not understand why people feel they are just another call?

Having said that, if you have to take care of business, do that. I feel if I can solve the very same problem with words or a conversation, I win. I would rather not give a T and say something in a quiet way, then T someone and the whole world speculates on what just took place. Usually the better Ts is when everyone can hear and see the behavior of a coach or player. But when that does not happen, you do what you have to do. I just do not buy the fact that you call it just like any other foul. I also do not buy that a coach does this to motivate his players either. That is just a cop out to justify their behavior.

Peace

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Personally, the coach of a 14 and under team, as in this article, is gonna get very little slack from me.

Amen...Brother!

Many of these Coaches watch Bobby Knight type coaches on television and see this as some sort of inspiration for themselves. They see these coaches getting away with stuff that is totally inappropriate in an AAU/Middle School setting.
NCAA leans toward big business, AAU should lean toward sportsmanship...and we as officials can help "guide" the Coaches and players in that direction of appropriate behavior.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by mick
[Bdj,

The ejection mechanic is unclear.

The paperwork is daunting.

Officials are not trained to do this.

Make it a POE, and watch 'em leave.
mick [/B]

Mick, what paperwork are you referring to?? I have been involved in the ejection of several coaches over the years, both HS and above, and have never had to do more than report to my supervisor or assignor. Maybe they handled paperwork, but I have never done more than make some phone calls...and to respond to JRut, there may be more questions about the T's, but if the T was deserved, those quaestions are followed by a "Good job" type comment...only once was I second-guessed about a T (in a college game), and my partners both heard what was said and backed me up so it worked out fine...

[mick]

Originally posted by rockyroad

Mick, what paperwork are you referring to?? I have been involved in the ejection of several coaches over the years, both HS and above, and have never had to do more than report to my supervisor or assignor. Maybe they handled paperwork, but I have never done more than make some phone calls...and to respond to JRut, there may be more questions about the T's, but if the T was deserved, those quaestions are followed by a "Good job" type comment...only once was I second-guessed about a T (in a college game), and my partners both heard what was said and backed me up so it worked out fine... [/B]

Michigan requires written report for ejections.
Now, I am wondering if that does not apply to the second T.

(I've never given a second.)
mick