technical fouls from a coaches perspective

[TrojanHorse]

I have had 3 T's in 5 years..Last year was my last in a division championship, I didnt think we were getting the calls we should when drove the basket and I basically started to ride him..It took about a quarter, but when he whacked me, I turned and sat down..he didnt need to tell me that I lost my box..

[UmpJM]

I wouldn't know.

In 13 years of coaching basketball, I never received a "T". Never saw the point of it.

JM

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

I wouldn't know.

In 13 years of coaching basketball, I never received a "T". Never saw the point of it.

JM

That's one reason you've been able to transition so easily to officiating.

[williebfree]

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse

...Basically, I started to ride him..It took about a quarter, but when he whacked me, I turned and sat down..he didn't need to tell me that I lost my box..

This is not meant to focus on TrojanHorse, but toward coaches in general:

I am dumbstruck with the mindset of a coach who thinks s/he is going to improve the official's performance by publicly berating him/her. Common sense would imply you can only make the situation worse by this behavior.

[TrojanHorse]

Originally Posted by williebfree

This is not meant to focus on TrojanHorse, but toward coaches in general:

I am dumbstruck with the mindset of a coach who thinks s/he is going to improve the official's performance by publicly berating him/her. Common sense would imply you can only make the situation worse by this behavior.

You know, at the time it was to make a point. 42 second into the game, this official comes to tell me #40 is getting out of hand, he is not going to be out there long. I asked what he is doing so i can address it. I get no answer, the kid pick up two quick ones. I sub him out. I put him back in to start the 2Q, gets his third quickly. All fouls from the same official. I just thought a point had to be made is all.

I have officiated and know how all of this works. I used to officiate with some guys who instead of taking care of the coach would look for fouls on the stud player or the only guard on the team just to make a point. I did not like it then and I do not think most of you all would either.

[williebfree]

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse

... I have officiated and know how all of this works. I used to officiate with some guys who instead of taking care of the coach would look for fouls on the stud player or the only guard on the team just to make a point. I did not like it then and I do not think ost of you all would either.

TrojanHorse:
As I mentioned in my original response, I am not "calling you out." In fact, I have cause to believe you do an admirable job as a coach and official. I just wanted to identifying a group of "coaches" who insist on making a scene and you offered the context (in one instance) that applied to mindset I wanted to discuss.

Additionally, I, too, am embarrassed for the the avocation of officiating when people put on the stripes and make a mockery of the position. Unethical behavior such as you described above seriously frustrates me and all others who genuinely officiate for the love of the game and the positive values it can promote.

[TrojanHorse]

Know that I took nothing to offense. There are many times my coaching counterparts go well beyond the line. The bad thing is that they are not dealt with. It tells the coaches their behavior is ok and will be tolerated. I have put more effort in to coaching my kids than acting like a jack@$$. In fact, the association that handles our games have problems recruiting and maintaining officials. I think the abuse they continue to take has alot to do with it.

[williebfree]

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse

Know that I took nothing to offense. There are many times my coaching counterparts go well beyond the line. The bad thing is that they are not dealt with. It tells the coaches their behavior is ok and will be tolerated. I have put more effort in to coaching my kids than acting like a jack@$$. In fact, the association that handles our games have problems recruiting and maintaining officials. I think the abuse they continue to take has alot to do with it.

In my earlier days, I worked as a youth counselor in two different institutions for the State of WI. One location was filled with "rookies" and the other had many veteran counselors. In the first location the "inmates ran the asylum" the second had a sense of order and much more habilitation occurred. I offer this analogy because it appears that your location suffers a similar dilemma and, sadly, it will continue to struggle until a core of veterans comes in and establishes a higher threshold. Best wishes with that.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by williebfree

In my earlier days, I worked as a youth counselor in two different institutions for the State of WI. One location was filled with "rookies" and the other had many veteran counselors. In the first location the "inmates ran the asylum" the second had a sense of order and much more habilitation occurred. I offer this analogy because it appears that your location suffers a similar dilemma and, sadly, it will continue to struggle until a core of veterans comes in and establishes a higher threshold. Best wishes with that.

Heck we have that in my area and its unecessary. The assignor WANTS us to take care of business. Our vets tend to be college guys ,and in our area the coaches run the college show, and so that attitude tends to have the trickle down effect to the HS game.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by williebfree

In my earlier days, I worked as a youth counselor in two different institutions for the State of WI. One location was filled with "rookies" and the other had many veteran counselors. In the first location the "inmates ran the asylum" the second had a sense of order and much more habilitation occurred. I offer this analogy because it appears that your location suffers a similar dilemma and, sadly, it will continue to struggle until a core of veterans comes in and establishes a higher threshold. Best wishes with that.

I live in Wisconsin and while I am not happy with a lot of things revolving around what you say above, I do not let it affect me one bit. I'd rather quit than let a rating or a conference commissioner blacklist affect how I run a game.

There's a local conference I do not work (that I would like to work) and it's because I gave an USC flag (in football) to the league's prima donna head coach -- and his athletic director was and is too much of a puppet to do what's right. My only regret is that I didn't eject the coach, cause he sure had it coming. But I didn't avoid it because of ratings or a desire to work the conference, I was just stunned that someone could act so badly on a field and I missed my opportunity to send the right message.

BTW, this coach has rated me every year since then even though he has never seen me work since, which is against policy. Again, the athletic director made excuses for him rather than take care of the problem.

So just take care of business and work the other schools.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by williebfree

This is not meant to focus on TrojanHorse, but toward coaches in general:

I am dumbstruck with the mindset of a coach who thinks s/he is going to improve the official's performance by publicly berating him/her. Common sense would imply you can only make the situation worse by this behavior.

RANT ON
I think refs are handy and lots of people have no self control. Kinda of like my new puppy. He thinks he can do what he wants when he wants. My 3 older dogs and myself are there to let him know what the deal is.

I've long ago gotten over people behaving badly so coaches acting up doesn't upset me as much as seeing refs just take the abuse.

About a year and a half into this gig I knew one of two things were gonna happen. one, I quit or two I learn how to deal with the coaches. Through blind luck I stumbled onto this forum and chose to take care of business. I learned how to deal with coaches and I do.

The fact that I'm willing to give T's make ALOT of my partners uncomfortable. If I had a dollar for every time I heard "we don't want to be looking for T's." well I'd have more money then I do. I don't have to look far for T's, thats for sure.

I'm less concerned with the coaches then I am with refs who just let themselves be bullied in gyms nationwide. I also realize I have the advantage of working in a large ASSOC., 120 schools, so I don't have to worry about being "blacklisted" and losing games.I also work for an assignor who believes we let WAY TOO MUCH go from the coaches. He has always had my back.....

RANT OFF

[williebfree]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

... I'm less concerned with the coaches then I am with refs who just let themselves be bullied in gyms nationwide. I also realize I have the advantage of working in a large ASSOC., 120 schools, so I don't have to worry about being "blacklisted" and losing games. I also work for an assignor who believes we let WAY TOO MUCH go from the coaches. He has always had my back.....

I agree about the discouragingly large number of officials who are fearful (or don't chose for whatever reason) to use one of the most effective tools at the official's disposal.

I am also glad to see you recognize that there are significant factors that weigh-in on an official's on court decisions. Sadly, in WI, the coaches submit their ratings of officials. I have observed coaches enter "Awful," "Sucks" etc... by the Officials name in their score book before it leaves the table. Needless to say, I am NOT a proponent of our state Association's evaluation "System."

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by williebfree

I agree about the discouragingly large number of officials who are fearful (or don't chose for whatever reason) to use one of the most effective tools at the official's disposal.

I am also glad to see you recognize that there are significant factors that weigh-in on an official's on court decisions. Sadly, in WI, the coaches submit their ratings of officials. I have observed coaches enter "Awful," "Sucks" etc... by the Officials name in their score book before it leaves the table. Needless to say, I am NOT a proponent of our state Association's evaluation "System."

Yea I get that some refs are between a rock and a hard place.

I'm not for 2 reasons.

1. Geography

2. If I had to ref under those circumstances my schedule might be severly cut. Didn't we have someone around here who said he sits home 4 nights a week while the "coach pleasers" work 5 nights a week. I am more then willing to stop reffing if it becomes not so much fun. Don't get me wrong, I love the atmosphere, the continuing quest for improvement and perfection, getting out of the house a couple nights a week, BUT its a hobby and I take it year by year, and the money I make basically pays for road trips to see people like Nevadaref officiate and visit my brother. It's not the be all and end all for me if I couldn't ref anymore-so having that attitude helps in taking care of business.

[ILRef80]

Originally Posted by williebfree

I am also glad to see you recognize that there are significant factors that weigh-in on an official's on court decisions. Sadly, in WI, the coaches submit their ratings of officials. I have observed coaches enter "Awful," "Sucks" etc... by the Officials name in their score book before it leaves the table. Needless to say, I am NOT a proponent of our state Association's evaluation "System."

This is the biggest reason why a lot of officials in my area are afraid to call technicals. Something really needs to be done about the ratings system.