who gets foul, if any

[wyo96]

JV Boys last night.

B1 has inside rebounding position on A1. On the rebound both go straight up within their vertical plane. A2 also jumps for the rebound and crashes into the back of A1 with enough force to displace A1 into B1 and displace B1.

I whistle, prelim a push on A2 and report it. The coach says that A2 hit A1, how is that a foul?

A2 clearly "caused" the foul, but A1 made the contact with B1. I thought the contact caused significant displacement, so I needed a foul, but with hindsight is this a no call? Should this be a foul on A1?

Looking back, I believe I needed to call the foul on A1, even though he didn't do anything wrong. Correct? Is there a rule reference/case book to support this or is it as simple as "he's the guy who displaced B2"

Thanks in advance.

ps. you will notice that I don't post much, but I read this forum every day.

[Adam]

All that matters is that A1 displaced B1, and that this was the first infraction (A2 can legally push his teammate here). So yes, the foul should go to A1.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by wyo96

JV Boys last night.

B1 has inside rebounding position on A1. On the rebound both go straight up within their vertical plane. A2 also jumps for the rebound and crashes into the back of A1 with enough force to displace A1 into B1 and displace B1.

I whistle, prelim a push on A2 and report it. The coach says that A2 hit A1, how is that a foul?

A2 clearly "caused" the foul, but A1 made the contact with B1. I thought the contact caused significant displacement, so I needed a foul, but with hindsight is this a no call? Should this be a foul on A1?

Looking back, I believe I needed to call the foul on A1, even though he didn't do anything wrong. Correct? Is there a rule reference/case book to support this or is it as simple as "he's the guy who displaced B1"

Thanks in advance.

ps. you will notice that I don't post much, but I read this forum every day.

Definitely not a no call because of the blue. A1 displaced B1, so he gets the foul. Let A1 and A2 sort it out. If you call a foul on A2, then you and the A coach have to sort it out, and you'll have to accept that you erred.

[Ref_in_Alberta]

Originally Posted by wyo96

JV Boys last night.

B1 has inside rebounding position on A1. On the rebound both go straight up within their vertical plane. A2 also jumps for the rebound and crashes into the back of A1 with enough force to displace A1 into B1 and displace B1.

I whistle, prelim a push on A2 and report it. The coach says that A2 hit A1, how is that a foul?

A2 clearly "caused" the foul, but A1 made the contact with B1. I thought the contact caused significant displacement, so I needed a foul, but with hindsight is this a no call? Should this be a foul on A1?

Looking back, I believe I needed to call the foul on A1, even though he didn't do anything wrong. Correct? Is there a rule reference/case book to support this or is it as simple as "he's the guy who displaced B2"

Thanks in advance.

ps. you will notice that I don't post much, but I read this forum every day.

If you look at the definition of a foul which is illegal contact between oppenents and in your jugdement "the contact caused significant displacement" of the team B player, IMO, the foul should be charged to A1.

(A2 needs to buy A1 a soda or someting after the game... )

I don't believe there is a specific rule that covers this play in the FIBA book but that is the way I'd handle it, if a no-call is not an option.

[shishstripes]

Originally Posted by Ref_in_Alberta

(A2 needs to buy A1 a soda or someting after the game... )

Especially if A1 is their star player and gets his 5th foul and A2 has none!

I had this same thing happen to me growing up. I was pushed by my teammate into an opposing player causing significant displacement. Foul was called on me, I respectfully asked the official about it and he agreed that I didn't initiate the contact, but asked if I would rather the foul be called on my teammate who was the star player. But that was oh so long ago.

[wyo96]

Thanks all. I will see the coach tonight and explain my error and that I stand by the foul, but I nailed the wrong player. I will assure him it won't happen again.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by wyo96

...explain my error... and that I nailed the wrong player...

Stop right there. That's all you need to do. But if the coach doesn't specifically ask you about it you don't even need to explain anything. Don't initiate the conversation, let him ask.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Stop right there. That's all you need to do. But if the coach doesn't specifically ask you about it you don't even need to explain anything. Don't initiate the conversation, let him ask.

Ditto. IMO, if he asks, simply just say "I made a mistake. Tonight is a new game."

[wyo96]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Ditto. IMO, if he asks, simply just say "I made a mistake. Tonight is a new game."

Thanks and I generally agree, but I left out of the OP some of the further respectful discussion with the coach. I do believe I should admit that I misapplied the rule. I'll will stand by the call if asked.

While I will see him at the game tonight I am not working the game. I do not have that coach for another game this season.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by wyo96

Thanks and I generally agree, but I left out of the OP some of the further respectful discussion with the coach. I do believe I should admit that I misapplied the rule. I'll will stand by the call if asked.

While I will see him at the game tonight I am not working the game. I do not have that coach for another game this season.

I wouldn't have a problem with you telling the coach you kicked that call at all.

IMO...this shows that you either looked it up, or talked to some veterans about the play...and that you really do care about getting calls correct.

Again, this just shows you care about being a better official...one that can admit he isn't perfect, but strives to be in every call.

(Just don't slobber all over the coach about it...make it short and sweet.)

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

I

(Just don't slobber all over the coach about it...make it short and sweet.)

Leave the slobbering and 30-packs for the assignors with all the plum games.