more firsts

[just another ref]

Saw two things last night I had never seen before.

1. A ten second call in a boys varsity game with no pressure. Home point guard was walking it up, calling a play. At about the count of 6 coach yells no, so and so, you come take the point. So and so comes into the backcourt and takes the ball, but makes a little loop deeper into the backcourt while looking to the bench for further instructions. There was no sense of urgency from anyone other than the visitors sideline, who started to say "10" at the count of 8.
I reached 10 just as the kid crossed the line with his first foot. He looked shocked, then embarrassed. Coach threw up his hands and mumbled something.

2. Kicking violation by the offense. Visitors point guard mishandled a pass. it bounced off his hand, then hit his lower leg and started to roll away. He casually reached out with his foot and raked the ball back to himself.

[grunewar]

I could see the backcourt violation happening....even though 10 secs is a long time, some players take their time.

I had one a few weeks ago where in the second half of a Rec League game during a foul shot, the H coach called a player over to the bench to discuss strategy. Unfortunately, they were both well below the free-throw line extended and the coach caused the violation.

When I blew the whistle, first I got , then I got . The coach about wanted to crawl into a hole.

[JugglingReferee]

Numerous times I have seen the team in possession avoid a violation because they've been made aware that they're close to the 10-second count because the defense is yelling for the 10-second call. Defensive teams always yell early for that one. Why, I dunno. We ain't gunna count faster.

[mbyron]

I called 10 in a girls V game last week. Big girl for the home team comes down with a board after a FT, and she does that pivoty thing to keep opponents off her. She does this for -- literally -- 4 seconds (I'm counting, you see). Then she passes it, and the guard moseys up to the division line.

Well, I whistle the violation, and the coach goes ballistic! That's the fastest 10 seconds I've ever seen, blah blah blah.

The clock showed 4:20. "Coach, the free throws were shot with 4:31 on the clock."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I had one a few weeks ago where in the second half of a Rec League game during a foul shot, the H coach called a player over to the bench to discuss strategy. Unfortunately, they were both well below the free-throw line extended and the coach caused the violation.

Did you have an opportunity for some preventive officiating here?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Did you have an opportunity for some preventive officiating here?

Understand your point. I would have liked to. But the ball was already at the disposal of the shooter as the coach then waved the young man - who was properly behind the free-throw line extended and behind the three-point line over to him. I didn't think blowing it dead and moving him out without penalty at that point was appropriate.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Understand your point. I would have liked to. But the ball was already at the disposal of the shooter as the coach then waved the young man - who was properly behind the free-throw line extended and behind the three-point line over to him. I didn't think blowing it dead and moving him out without penalty at that point was appropriate.

I'm not going to speak for Bob here but just go over to the coach at the next dead ball and say, "Coach do you realize on a FT if you're players are talking with you and standing below FT line extended it's a violation?" It wasn't intentional and I'm sure it just slipped his mind. Was he gaining an advantage? Just let it go

-Josh

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I'm not going to speak for Bob here but just go over to the coach at the next dead ball and say, "Coach do you realize on a FT if you're players are talking with you and standing below FT line extended it's a violation?" It wasn't intentional and I'm sure it just slipped his mind. Was he gaining an advantage? Just let it go

-Josh

And I certainly understand this point of view too. I'm not out to be an a$$hole. But to me, it was as if someone had entered or left the lane after I placed the ball at the disposal of the shooter. Maybe under a different circumstance or if I can get the ball back before its at the disposal of the shooter I will treat it differnetly. In this case it was very apparent and obvious and I chose to call it.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I'm not going to speak for Bob here but just go over to the coach at the next dead ball and say, "Coach do you realize on a FT if you're players are talking with you and standing below FT line extended it's a violation?"

I send that message by calling the violation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I send that message by calling the violation.

Me, too; normally.

[Man In Blue]

The shot clock has really made the back court counts more interesting. It is ok if the shot clock opperator is paying attention. I have had several that were close but the clock started several seconds late. Also with the opposite when the clock was started early.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Did you have an opportunity for some preventive officiating here?

Agree. Wave the player back.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by just another ref

2. Kicking violation by the offense. Visitors point guard mishandled a pass. it bounced off his hand, then hit his lower leg and started to roll away. He casually reached out with his foot and raked the ball back to himself.

9-4 TRAVEL, KICK, FIST
A player shall not travel with the ball, as in 4-44, intentionally kick it, as in 4-
29, strike it with the fist or cause it to enter and pass through the basket from
below.

4-29 KICKING THE BALL
Kicking the ball is intentionally striking it with any part of the leg or foot.

Did the player actually strike the ball with his foot? I think that the intent of this rule and the wording of this rule conflict. I believe that the intent of the rule is to prohibit a player from intentionally USING a foot to play the ball. The wording indicates INTENTIONALLY STRIKING the ball with the foot or leg is prohibited. One could argue that raking is not striking.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

2. Kicking violation by the offense. Visitors point guard mishandled a pass. it bounced off his hand, then hit his lower leg and started to roll away. He casually reached out with his foot and raked the ball back to himself.

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Did the player actually strike the ball with his foot? I think that the intent of this rule and the wording of this rule conflict. I believe that the intent of the rule is to prohibit a player from intentionally USING a foot to play the ball. The wording indicates INTENTIONALLY STRIKING the ball with the foot or leg is prohibited. One could argue that raking is not striking.

You can rake all day, but the thing you're trying to move won't move unless you strike it with the rake. The ball moved.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Defensive teams always yell early for that one. Why, I dunno. We ain't gunna count faster.

"How long a minute is depends on which side of the bathroom door you're on."