Lopsided Foul Counts

[chayce]

I have players ask about foul count ever so often and usually just ask, "Do you know why the foul count is 9 to 3?" After the obligatory "No.", I just say, "It's because the fouls are 9 to 3!" They get the point.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rsl

I didn't call any (I didn't see any) and the question was an honest one. I really wanted to know if I was missing something. In any case, I don't think I will ask the question again. The posters here are correct- better to just listen.

I understand why you asked the question. I am just saying that if you ask and you do not call what they think is a foul, now you have set yourself up for the coach to go off. Kind of like how people address things in the pre-game meeting only to not call anything to the coaches or players liking and that gives them one more than to complain about. Something like hand checking is not always what coach’s think is. They think anytime you touch a ball handler, that is a foul.

Peace

[mplagrow]

I had a game that was 14-0 in the third quarter. Coach was going ballistic. The truth was, it was a mismatch, both teams knew it, and one team was driving the lane and scoring and the other team just hung around the outside and missed three-pointers. Who's going to foul a team lobbing up shots if they can't hit the broad side of a barn?

Halfway through the third quarter, the coach yelled, "I've never seen anything like this before in my life!" I laughed and said, "Neither have I!"

[kwv001]

Originally Posted by pizanno

Don't try a snappy or smart response. Nothing good can come of it.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I might be sarcastic ("I do not count them, I call them").

I think pizanno makes a good point. Last Friday night, I used the exact line, "I don't count them, I just call them" after a coach had pointed out to us that the foul count was 7-0 in the opponents favor. Of course he had also pointed out to us when it was 4-0, 5-0, and 6-0. His team was lazy and playing defense entirely with their hands.

As I finished informing him that I just call them and turned to walk away, he yelled out to me that "you don't do that very well, either"!. Whack! As I was reporting the technical, the thought went through my mind to ask him if he liked #8 any better than the first 7, but I refrained. Although at that point I think the technical was necessary, I didn't feel very good about it, because I felt that at least to a certain degree I had baited him into it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kwv001

I think pizanno makes a good point. Last Friday night, I used the exact line, "I don't count them, I just call them" after a coach had pointed out to us that the foul count was 7-0 in the opponents favor. Of course he had also pointed out to us when it was 4-0, 5-0, and 6-0. His team was lazy and playing defense entirely with their hands.

As I finished informing him that I just call them and turned to walk away, he yelled out to me that "you don't do that very well, either"!. Whack! As I was reporting the technical, the thought went through my mind to ask him if he liked #8 any better than the first 7, but I refrained. Although at that point I think the technical was necessary, I didn't feel very good about it, because I felt that at least to a certain degree I had baited him into it.

Pizanno might make a good point, but I have used that line several times and most of the time coaches shut up.

The problem with any line or any way you deal with coaches, not all people have the ability to deliver the line or the demeanor to back it up. And nothing works for everyone and all situations. I have never had to T up a coach for this line. I have on the other hand tried to use reasoning and try to appeal to the common sense of coaches only to have that blow up in my face. When a coach is yelling the foul count, they are not trying to be reasonable. They are trying to suggest you are cheating or incompetent. I feel those kinds of comments need to be addressed or they will just call you a cheat.

The question was asked "What would you do...." not what is the best thing for everyone. If I have learned anything by working over the years in all my sports, I have learned that everyone cannot just mirror what others do just because it works for an individual. Sarcasm works well for me because I like to send a certain message how ridiculous calling out foul counts are.

Peace

[CaRef5]

i usually respond, " coach im a referee not a mathematician!" ... its my job to officiate not keep counts of fouls =)

[muxbule]

My favorite response to the question of foul count is "which ones do you feel your team did not deserve"

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kwv001

I think pizanno makes a good point. Last Friday night, I used the exact line, "I don't count them, I just call them" after a coach had pointed out to us that the foul count was 7-0 in the opponents favor. Of course he had also pointed out to us when it was 4-0, 5-0, and 6-0. His team was lazy and playing defense entirely with their hands.

As I finished informing him that I just call them and turned to walk away, he yelled out to me that "you don't do that very well, either"!. Whack! As I was reporting the technical, the thought went through my mind to ask him if he liked #8 any better than the first 7, but I refrained. Although at that point I think the technical was necessary, I didn't feel very good about it, because I felt that at least to a certain degree I had baited him into it.

He wanted one, had one coming, and you just facilitated it. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Personally, I'm more in the camp of "The fouls are 9-3 because the fouls are 9-3. Period." And unless the coach is asking a question, I'm just ignoring it until I have to either deliver a warning (he's too loud about it, out of the box, or otherwise being a douchebag) or a technical.

I called two in a varsity girls game last week (first USC technicals in 2 years) on the losing team with a 4-point margin and a minute left. Girl acted up after we didn't call a violation (I was the C, it was a backcourt violation they wanted, and the T was straddling the line) and got whacked. I reported the T and it was the girl's fifth foul. Since I was there reporting the foul and technical, I told the coach it was 5 fouls and started the clock.

He asked for a timeout. I told him I needed a sub first. He told me he wasn't giving me one and that he wanted a timeout. I repeated, "by rule, I need a sub before the timeout." He came back with, "you're not getting one and I want a timeout" and he turned his back to me. During this time the horns went off in the background. I whacked him.

Could I have avoided the technical by granting him the timeout? Sure. And I know many would've done that. But the easy way isn't always the right way.

[beachbum]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The question was asked "What would you do...." not what is the best thing for everyone. If I have learned anything by working over the years in all my sports, I have learned that everyone cannot just mirror what others do just because it works for an individual. Sarcasm works well for me because I like to send a certain message how ridiculous calling out foul counts are.

Peace

This is the best advise. One other point is that size makes a difference. i am not very tall, so I believe that coaches will try to intimidate me because of that. Snappy LITTLE(notice the pun)comments can easily backfire. I like to use "what is your question coach" as much as I can. I also just say that" you are acting unsportsman like and this is your warning"

Originally Posted by RichMSN

He wanted one, had one coming, and you just facilitated it. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Personally, I'm more in the camp of "The fouls are 9-3 because the fouls are 9-3. Period." And unless the coach is asking a question, I'm just ignoring it until I have to either deliver a warning (he's too loud about it, out of the box, or otherwise being a douchebag) or a technical.

I called two in a varsity girls game last week (first USC technicals in 2 years) on the losing team with a 4-point margin and a minute left. Girl acted up after we didn't call a violation (I was the C, it was a backcourt violation they wanted, and the T was straddling the line) and got whacked. I reported the T and it was the girl's fifth foul. Since I was there reporting the foul and technical, I told the coach it was 5 fouls and started the clock.

He asked for a timeout. I told him I needed a sub first. He told me he wasn't giving me one and that he wanted a timeout. I repeated, "by rule, I need a sub before the timeout." He came back with, "you're not getting one and I want a timeout" and he turned his back to me. During this time the horns went off in the background. I whacked him.

Could I have avoided the technical by granting him the timeout? Sure. And I know many would've done that. But the easy way isn't always the right way.

Along this line, I hate it when coaches want me to grant the timeout before I report a foul. When I have a request, I always let them know I acknowledge their request but need to report the foul first. Usually, they're pretty good but I had one that kept saying "I want a timeout!" As I was reporting the foul, that coach's players started going to him to huddle up while the other team waited. After the report, I turned and asked him which timeout he wanted, a 30 or full. He went off, saying he already asked for a full and he was already in the huddle and not to interrupt him. I whacked him, reported the T, and then the timeout. The other team then proceeded to their bench. Coach had his girls back on the court before the other team, and was asking why the horn was taking so long. He didn't know he'd been whacked till the other team came out of the huddle and my partner asked for a shooter for the free throws. Coach started on my partner asking what was going on, then he came flying down the sideline screaming at me. Lucky for me, partner T'd him for being out of the box and ejected him. There's some idiocy out there indeedy.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by beachbum

This is the best advise. One other point is that size makes a difference. i am not very tall, so I believe that coaches will try to intimidate me because of that.

Size, race, gender, experience, grey hair can all be factors to how you are treated and how the people react to you. I know big Black guys that can say anything and no one response to them in a negative way.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Size, race, gender, experience, grey hair can all be factors to how you are treated and how the people react to you. I know big Black guys that can say anything and no one response to them in a negative way.

Peace

I know big white guys, little black guys, little hispanic guys, and tall white women who get the same treatment. You're right, though, lots of things come into play here.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Gray hair can be (a) factor to how you are treated and how the people react to you.

As my hair has gotten grayer, my technical fouls have decreased. Coincidence?

[shishstripes]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

As my hair has gotten grayer, my technical fouls have decreased. Coincidence?

Older, kinder, gentler BillyMac.

[snorman75]

I only have one response to being asked why lopsided fouls:

"Well coach if you had taught your kids to run a offense so they stop shooting 3 pointers or turning the ball over you might get a call. You see the other team works the ball inside and takes good shoots. It might help too if they learned to play defense."

Then I just wait.

LOL