i saw an illegal call by the ref in the bulls/rockets game

[PackersFTW]

we've all seen bad calls, thousands of times, but have you ever seen a ref make a call that wasn't even legal? during the game, ron artest drove to the basket, and andres nocioni wrapped him up, and the foul was kinda hard, but not really. well, the ref saw the foul as too hard, so gave nocioni a technical on top of the regular foul. so i was like hmm i thought it's either a regular or a flagrant. turns out i was right. check this out, straight from nba.com:

"Section V--Conduct
a. An official may assess a technical foul, without prior warning, at any time. A technical foul(s) may be assessed to any player on the court or anyone seated on the bench for conduct which, in the opinion of an official, is detrimental to the game. A technical foul cannot be assessed for physical contact when the ball is alive. "

and i know what everybody is thinking, and i don't blame you. you think that i'm mistaken, and the technical must have been for arguing after the call, on somebody else, etc, but that wasn't the case. the announcers were slightly confused, and the coach asked the ref what's up, but i believe they were talking more of why was he called for a hard foul, instead of noticing you can't even call a technical for a hard foul. i'm just curious how a 24 year old who has no nba experience noticed this, yet the coaching staff, officials, and announcers didn't.

[Welpe]

To my colleagues that work basketball, you're welcome.

[PackersFTW]

Originally Posted by Welpe

To my colleagues that work basketball, you're welcome.

huh?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Welpe

To my colleagues that work basketball, you're welcome.

You know what to do.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You know what to do.

I will go watch the Rachel Maddow show as penance.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I will go watch the Rachel Maddow show as penance.

Not exactly Olby, but it'll do.

[PackersFTW]

Originally Posted by deecee

Don't take offense to what we say here to you, its just lots of experience in similar situations where the OP does not have genuine interest but just want to troll around and waste our time. I am glad you came to a conclusion, and I do appologize if I offended

no need to apologize, i totally agree. why would anybody troll around and waste somebody's time on here, an officiating forum? best place to do that would be a general forum where there are lots of teens. like i explained, if somebody insults me, and then i defend myself, i refuse to be targeted as the problem, even indirectly. regardless of what people think of my questions, as long as i'm discussing things in a regular/polite manner, the person throwing insults should be targeted, not me.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're the one who wanted me to assume you had the facts right. I didn't think you were lying, I just thought there was something you missed. There was.

FWIW, I'd trust someone who is 35 or 40 over either of your hypothetical examples. My point had nothing to do with your post count, and everything to do with how long you've been at this site (I never mentioned post count, you did) and your statement of, "usually what happens is, you assume the OP is truthful."

You haven't been here long enough to know what "usually" happens. Again, I didn't imply you weren't being truthful, I asked what your source of information was. Your answer should have been, "the announcers."

absolutely. the older the better, that's why i'm here. not calling you guys old, just calling you over 30. i think i made a mistake posting that last part on this thread if i have no beef with you guys. didn't mean to make it sound like i did. it's just in some other threads, a few people on here have really tried to pick a fight with me, so i'm on edge and tend to be looking out for insults, when alls i'm trying to do is discuss things. that's what's great about this forum, is most of you, even when misunderstanding something, don't get all crazy and start throwing insults, whereas on another forum, i would have been flamed multiple times for what i said, even though i didn't insult anybody. so that's a huge reason why i'm here, and why i may discuss things that are possibly not really meant for this forum.

[Raymond]

4:15 Andres Nocioni personal foul (Ron Artest draws the foul) 32-39
4:15 Andres Nocioni technical foul (1st technical foul) 32-39
4:15 32-40 Aaron Brooks makes technical free throw

[Adam]

So, what's your source for saying the ref called what you say he did?

[PackersFTW]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, what's your source for saying the ref called what you say he did?

the bulls/rockets game, at the 4:15 mark of the 2nd quarter? usually what happens is, you assume the OP is truthful, and say something like "well, if what you say happened, happened, then yes, that was an illegal call". never heard of somebody wanting proof of something like this. you could ask for proof on pretty much any thread in that case.

[Adam]

You haven't been here long, have you?

I'm going to assume an NBA ref did not call a TF on a contact foul, especially if he also called a PF on the same contact. Maybe something happened after the PF that drew the TF.

[PackersFTW]

i love this forum, because on any other forum, they would be like omg it's one call, who cares. but this is an officiating forum, so it's perfect.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The play-by-play clearly has two fouls being called (at the same game time -- 4:15 of the 2nd quarter). I don't know (nor do I care) whether "two fouls for one act" is allowed under NBA rules (I doubt it). It wouldn't be allowed under FED or NCAA rules.

I would find it surprising if an NBA ref didn't get the rule right -- but officials (in all sports) have erred before.

like i said, this is the first time i've ever noticed this. as far as the rules go, for a foul on the ball carrier, it's either a personal foul (shooting or non; 1-3 shots at the line) or a flagrant (2 shots and the ball; possible ejection)

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You haven't been here long, have you?

I'm going to assume an NBA ref did not call a TF on a contact foul, especially if he also called a PF on the same contact. Maybe something happened after the PF that drew the TF.

i've been here for months. made over 100 posts probably. why?

i want to assume the same thing, thus why i'm here. the thing is, i replayed it many times (i would never come on here and claim something when i only saw it once in real time), and it was nothing more than a simple intentional foul, so he had nothing to complain about. as soon as he fouled, he went on with his business in a calm manner, not saying anything, and standing in his lane space for the free throw. then out of nowhere a technical, and the announcers talked about him getting a technical because it was a hard foul.

the PA announcer announced "technical foul on andres nocioni", not a defensive 3 seconds or something. and when they call defenive 3 seconds, they usually don't say who it was on (the PA announcer i mean), and definitely wouldn't leave out the words "defensive 3 seconds", so that rules that out.

about 15 seconds after the foul, when everybody was lining up on the line, neil funk said "the officials are gonna talk it over and see if that's a.." and he stopped there, probably going to say flagrant. nocioni said nothing all the way up to the call of the T.

so what APPEARS to have happened is they called the foul, then everybody started to line up on the lane while the officials got together and decided the foul was too hard, so they called a T?

i thought of one more possibility. mistake by the PA announcer, calling it on nocioni when it was on somebody else.

[Adam]

If that's what happened, I'm sure he'll be reprimanded by the NBA.

And, your post count is listed underneath your join date, November 2008, but that's irrelevant. My point was that we don't always assume the OP got the facts straight when they're claiming an official made an error like this. My first assumption is that there's information the OP didn't have access to that explains the perceived error.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, what's your source for saying the ref called what you say he did?

The play-by-play clearly has two fouls being called (at the same game time -- 4:15 of the 2nd quarter). I don't know (nor do I care) whether "two fouls for one act" is allowed under NBA rules (I doubt it). It wouldn't be allowed under FED or NCAA rules.

I would find it surprising if an NBA ref didn't get the rule right -- but officials (in all sports) have erred before.