Lopsided Foul Counts

[shishstripes]

After reading the post "Coach Lies to Evaluator" I think it might be helpful to mention some points for younger officials.

We have all had games where foul counts get lopsided and there are many reasons why:
Defense is more aggressive
Team in general is a step slower
Parity in ability, etc.

How do you deal with coaches and games like this in general.

[Adam]

I ignore coaches who whine about foul counts. They may as well be asking for three seconds during a throwin.

I continue to apply advantage/disadvantage.

[Raymond]

Depending on the coach and my mood my response could be:

• "We'll look harder" or...
• silence or...
• "That's not our fault"

Act stunned and reply "there's such a thing as lopsided foul counts?!?"

No, seriously, it would depend on the situation and coach like others have said.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Depending on the coach and my mood my response could be:

• "We'll look harder" or...
• silence or...
• "That's not our fault"

What if the score is lopsided? Do they want us to balance that out also?

[deecee]

Usually I respond with, "Get your players to stop fouling and that should help even things out."

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Depending on the coach and my mood my response could be:

• "We'll look harder" or...
• silence or...
• "That's not our fault"

Uhhh....coach, if you tell your players to play defense with the feet and not their hands, the foul count would probably be in your favor!!!!!!!

[jdmara]

Typical response is, "Coach, we honestly do not look at the foul count. We call the game as we see it. If the foul count is not equal, it's probably because one team is being more aggressive on defense."

-Josh

[Adam]

"Coach, are you accusing me of cheating?"

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by shishstripes

After reading the post "Coach Lies to Evaluator" I think it might be helpful to mention some points for younger officials.

We have all had games where foul counts get lopsided and there are many reasons why:
Defense is more aggressive
Team in general is a step slower
Parity in ability, etc.

How do you deal with coaches and games like this in general.

It really depends on the coach. I might ignore them. I might be sarcastic ("I do not count them, I call them"). I might tell them to stop fouling. I might tell him the reason the foul count is different. I do all kinds of things based on the person and the situation and how well I know the coach.

Peace

[kwv001]

Originally Posted by pizanno

Don't try a snappy or smart response. Nothing good can come of it.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I might be sarcastic ("I do not count them, I call them").

I think pizanno makes a good point. Last Friday night, I used the exact line, "I don't count them, I just call them" after a coach had pointed out to us that the foul count was 7-0 in the opponents favor. Of course he had also pointed out to us when it was 4-0, 5-0, and 6-0. His team was lazy and playing defense entirely with their hands.

As I finished informing him that I just call them and turned to walk away, he yelled out to me that "you don't do that very well, either"!. Whack! As I was reporting the technical, the thought went through my mind to ask him if he liked #8 any better than the first 7, but I refrained. Although at that point I think the technical was necessary, I didn't feel very good about it, because I felt that at least to a certain degree I had baited him into it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kwv001

I think pizanno makes a good point. Last Friday night, I used the exact line, "I don't count them, I just call them" after a coach had pointed out to us that the foul count was 7-0 in the opponents favor. Of course he had also pointed out to us when it was 4-0, 5-0, and 6-0. His team was lazy and playing defense entirely with their hands.

As I finished informing him that I just call them and turned to walk away, he yelled out to me that "you don't do that very well, either"!. Whack! As I was reporting the technical, the thought went through my mind to ask him if he liked #8 any better than the first 7, but I refrained. Although at that point I think the technical was necessary, I didn't feel very good about it, because I felt that at least to a certain degree I had baited him into it.

Pizanno might make a good point, but I have used that line several times and most of the time coaches shut up.

The problem with any line or any way you deal with coaches, not all people have the ability to deliver the line or the demeanor to back it up. And nothing works for everyone and all situations. I have never had to T up a coach for this line. I have on the other hand tried to use reasoning and try to appeal to the common sense of coaches only to have that blow up in my face. When a coach is yelling the foul count, they are not trying to be reasonable. They are trying to suggest you are cheating or incompetent. I feel those kinds of comments need to be addressed or they will just call you a cheat.

The question was asked "What would you do...." not what is the best thing for everyone. If I have learned anything by working over the years in all my sports, I have learned that everyone cannot just mirror what others do just because it works for an individual. Sarcasm works well for me because I like to send a certain message how ridiculous calling out foul counts are.

Peace

[beachbum]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The question was asked "What would you do...." not what is the best thing for everyone. If I have learned anything by working over the years in all my sports, I have learned that everyone cannot just mirror what others do just because it works for an individual. Sarcasm works well for me because I like to send a certain message how ridiculous calling out foul counts are.

Peace

This is the best advise. One other point is that size makes a difference. i am not very tall, so I believe that coaches will try to intimidate me because of that. Snappy LITTLE(notice the pun)comments can easily backfire. I like to use "what is your question coach" as much as I can. I also just say that" you are acting unsportsman like and this is your warning"

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by beachbum

This is the best advise. One other point is that size makes a difference. i am not very tall, so I believe that coaches will try to intimidate me because of that.

Size, race, gender, experience, grey hair can all be factors to how you are treated and how the people react to you. I know big Black guys that can say anything and no one response to them in a negative way.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kwv001

I think pizanno makes a good point. Last Friday night, I used the exact line, "I don't count them, I just call them" after a coach had pointed out to us that the foul count was 7-0 in the opponents favor. Of course he had also pointed out to us when it was 4-0, 5-0, and 6-0. His team was lazy and playing defense entirely with their hands.

As I finished informing him that I just call them and turned to walk away, he yelled out to me that "you don't do that very well, either"!. Whack! As I was reporting the technical, the thought went through my mind to ask him if he liked #8 any better than the first 7, but I refrained. Although at that point I think the technical was necessary, I didn't feel very good about it, because I felt that at least to a certain degree I had baited him into it.

He wanted one, had one coming, and you just facilitated it. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Personally, I'm more in the camp of "The fouls are 9-3 because the fouls are 9-3. Period." And unless the coach is asking a question, I'm just ignoring it until I have to either deliver a warning (he's too loud about it, out of the box, or otherwise being a douchebag) or a technical.

I called two in a varsity girls game last week (first USC technicals in 2 years) on the losing team with a 4-point margin and a minute left. Girl acted up after we didn't call a violation (I was the C, it was a backcourt violation they wanted, and the T was straddling the line) and got whacked. I reported the T and it was the girl's fifth foul. Since I was there reporting the foul and technical, I told the coach it was 5 fouls and started the clock.

He asked for a timeout. I told him I needed a sub first. He told me he wasn't giving me one and that he wanted a timeout. I repeated, "by rule, I need a sub before the timeout." He came back with, "you're not getting one and I want a timeout" and he turned his back to me. During this time the horns went off in the background. I whacked him.

Could I have avoided the technical by granting him the timeout? Sure. And I know many would've done that. But the easy way isn't always the right way.