7 year of commitment and now I'm a cheater?

[JRutledge]

At a 5th and 6th grade game, he would have been done being in my face. That is totally unacceptable and not something I would put up with a very experienced varsity or college coach. I am certainly not putting up with being called a cheater at a level than in a week everyone will not be thinking about.

Peace

[ronald]

No need for the pronoun you. It is a command. The subject is you.

ron

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by ronald

No need for the pronoun you. It is a command. The subject is you.

ron

Always had problems diagraming those sentences in English class

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I would have gone straight to him and said, "Coach, I don't expect you to agree with every call I make; but if you accuse me of cheating again we're going to have a problem that I have to resolve."

It warns him without asking him to repeat what he said. I personally don't like the, "Coach, do you want to repeat that," line as it smells like a trap. Just draw the line in neon lights for him (since he apparently see it) and let him decide.

I really like Shaqs view on this one. I agree with his point about the "repeat the line" stuff. The statement clearly lets the coach know that you can give him some room to disagree with judgment, but he cannot question integrity. Finally, the next step has clearly been stated.

This would have resulted in far less "leash", but, I sense it may have stopped the coach from continuing.

Missing an AP can be very frustrating for a coach, but WE are right more often than THEY are. I would simply state (as you did, I believe), that I may have missed one (sometimes the start of the quarter possession can be missed by a coach or an official), "But coach, I did not miss a possession on purpose."

Originally Posted by JRutledge

At a 5th and 6th grade game, he would have been done being in my face. That is totally unacceptable and not something I would put up with a very experienced varsity or college coach. I am certainly not putting up with being called a cheater at a level than in a week everyone will not be thinking about.

I also agree with JRuts comment that you allowed a coach to go on the offensive in a pretty low level game.

[williebfree]

This coach was WAAAY out of line.

I also agree usually when a coach starts a declarative statement with "You." He should be "checked" w/ at least a warning: "I have heard enough," or more aggressively with a "Whack"

I used to be the most patient/tolerant of all officials I knew (over 200 officials); however, the more I see knucklehead coaches like this, I have learned that an unemotionally assessed "T" goes to great lengths to refocus everyone back on the game. I also remind my partner that the next one, if necessary, should be awarded by him/her.

[cmar]

alright, i'm new to reffing, i've done some middle school stuff just trying to get my foot in the door as i'd like to work my to reffing HS and eventually (hopefully) high level college ball or even higher. that out of the way, i am new and will admit i probably don't know my *** from my elbows when it comes to the intricacies of officiating.

that said, my comment is referring to the beginning of the situation. i, as others above have said, do not like the "could you repeat that" because i think its baiting. how is an upset coach in the heat of competition going to respond a question like that?
that said, i have a couple of questions about this situation for all of you who are more experienced officials than i am (which would be, probably most of the posters on this board):
1. did Coltdoggs call a dead ball after the hoop specifically to address the coach and his comments? why would one do that? (i don't mean any malice, it hadn't crossed my mind to stop play unless a coach as an actual question/concern about something, if he's *****ing/baiting me i tune him out because i feel no good can come from me responding to his insults, it only encourages him to talk trash as a means of getting my attention, in my experience. if i'm wrong, by all means correct me). i can understand the coach questioning your integrity is a no-no, but is he really saying that you're a cheater is he mad and trying to let you know he's pissed? [you said that you've had problems with this guy before, so your judgement of his intent would be better than mine]
do the other refs here agree with the course of actions taken? (not the T-ing and tossing but the events leading up to it)
in reference to the "could you repeat that", what would others feel is the best way/phrase to approach a coach to handle him saying something like that without your (the ref) statement being condescending/baiting? something like "sir, did you just question my integrity?"
i like that because you give the coach to either stand up and say "yes, i think you're cheating" and "call you" on his opinion [to which you'd most likely toss him because for him to answer yes to your question he'd have to flat out accuse you of cheating] or he can clarify on why he said what he did and reason out an understanding.

[BillyMac]

I've got pretty thick skin, thicker than most, maybe because I coached middle school basketball for over twenty-five years. I've only given three, or four, technical fouls to coaches in the past five, or six years, total. But if anybody, head coach, assistant coach, trainer, player, substitute, bench personal, or the priest on the end of the bench, used the word "cheat" in reference to me, it would take me less than a second to toss him with the old, "You're outta here", baseball signal.

[icallfouls]

Stopping play to draw attention to the coach & going over to the bench area to challenge the coach. Frankly, you got what you asked for. You went to him and basically confronted him/backed him into a corner.

I say that since you stopped play, you had already made up your mind to T him. But you went into his wheel house to have him either back off or say it again. What did you expect him to do? Back off and apologize?

He was definitely wrong for his "cheating his kids" comment. He flat out said cheating and directed it toward an official. WHACK! But now you have gone to him. This is just adding fuel to his fire. He continued his comments, in fact according to the OP, said as much 3 different times.

It seems to me that this is one of those situations where both parties lose, because half the people are going to say you confronted/baited him, and the other half are going to say it was on him.

Just about any phrase with the word cheat in it is referring to the officials integrity and should not be tolerated. No need to go looking for something more.

[williebfree]

CMar:


Welcome to the forum and best wishes on your new addiction... uh, er... I mean avocation.


This forum will help expedite your learning curve. In my view, dealing with difficult coaches is one of the more challenging aspects of game management/officiating. I believe it is something that evolves (and hopefully improves) as you gain experience. Participating in this forum and serious rules study are significant means to build your confidence and court presence. Additionally, finding a few local mentors who are willing to work with you is another helpful approach.


Moving on to your questions based on the OP.


If possible, I avoid creating an "artificial interruption" (calling a dead ball after the hoop) specifically to call out a coach. However, sometimes the need to address/redirect a coach requires it to be dealt with in immediate fashion. Like you mentioned, I would not challenge the irate coach with a statement, such as "could you repeat that" because I too view it as baiting.


Do the other refs agree with the course of actions taken? (not the T-ing and tossing but the events leading up to it)


In the early part of my officiating career, I tended to allow coaches "the benefit of the doubt" when I felt they were frustrated. However, my experience has taught me that coaches need to be redirected early if they are repeatedly challenging calls/no-calls. There are many factors that influence how sternly I respond to a coach's remarks. The more blatant or boisterous the more severe my response. It can range from "I heard you coach" to a more stern "I have heard enough." If these interventions fail then I will assess a "T." I also admit that I have less tolerance at lower levels. A while back, a sage AD once prudently advised me that I should view the court as a classroom and coaches as teachers. He added that I should place a high premium on respectful conduct from all --- coaches, players, fans, and officials.


Ultimately, you will individually define what your thresholds for coach conduct will be and learn efficient methods/strategies to manage them.

[doubleringer]

I agree with some that you escalated the situation by confronting the coach. I'd say either assess the T and move on, or ignore the comment and move on. Personally, as soon as he says, "don't cheat my kids." he gets a T.

[Texas Aggie]

I'm most pissed off

Don't be. You should never, ever give anyone enough power over you to control your emotions based on their actions.

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Don't be. You should never, ever give anyone enough power over you to control your emotions based on their actions.

Sound advice for all walks of life TA....thank you.