Time Out

[Cubs Baseball]

Gotcha...I see your reasoning here! No problem on the Cubs Fan thing...This is our year!

[Cubs Baseball]

Good reasoning...I looked at the Case Book and did not see that one had to grant the time out...the case book clearly states that "if granted"...so, not to be weak in the knees here; it just seemed this official, didn't check off on his time-out and could have resolved the issue with an inadvertant whistle...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Cubs Baseball

Good reasoning...I looked at the Case Book and did not see that one had to grant the time out...the case book clearly states that "if granted"...so, not to be weak in the knees here; it just seemed this official, didn't check off on his time-out and could have resolved the issue with an inadvertant whistle...

Even without the case play, I'm granting this once I blow my whistle. The coach caused me to blow the whistle by requesting a TO.

1. If he still wants it, you have to give it to him as now the ball is dead.
2. If he just wanted the clock to stop, you should charge him the TO so he can't keep doing it.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Even without the case play, I'm granting this once I blow my whistle. The coach caused me to blow the whistle by requesting a TO.

1. If he still wants it, you have to give it to him as now the ball is dead the case book says so.
2. If he just wanted the clock to stop, you should charge him the TO so he can't keep doing it.

Yea, I'm just picking nits.

In NCAA, it is simply an inadvertant whistle, no TO is granted at that time, but since the ball is now dead, either team could still request and be granted a TO. This is what my fellow Cub Fan is suggesting. Unfortunately, you cannot do that under Fed. rules. I know we've had discussions in the past as to when a TO is actually granted. Some say it is granted even before the whistle is blown, which allows for the situation where a coach may request one during a quick sequence where they would be allowed, but by the time the whistle blows the situation may have changed (say, for example, an attempt at a quick inbounds after a basket). But, once an official hears the request and blows the whistle, the TO is granted. It may seem "fair" to not grant it, but that's not allowed. It is similar to a team asking for an exessive TO at the end of the game - some officials say they would ignore the request to "save" the T, but that is not allowed. The request is granted at the expense of the T.

But #2 could be the reason they put that case in there, so that coaches do not take advantage of talking an official into stopping the clock to set up a press, for example.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Cubs Baseball

The scenario we are discussing is: A whistle was blown with Team B dribbling in the backcourt with no real "play" occuring. The official clearly had not granted the time out; he raised his arm with the whistle and before awarding Team A the time out; play stopped. He had two options: Award the time out to Team A or declare "inadvertant whistle"... In my conversations, in polling fellow officials:

It seems the jury is still out; but the ones I have polled said that judgement is huge here. But, inadvertant whistles are part of the game; and that as long as, the pace of play was slow; to use inadvertant whistle. If we blow the whistle during a "play" you will probably have to award the time out and 'suffer the consequences"; but as a whole, the officials I have talked with are not "definitive" in they're opinions.

The jury is not out at all......

NCAA - inadvertant whistle
NFHS - Grant the time out

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Cubs Baseball

No problem on the Cubs Fan thing...This is our year!

Seems like I've heard that 100 times before.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Seems like I've heard that 100 times before.

101.

But who's counting?

[fiasco]

I had this situation happen to me last night, and I want to know what you guys think.

I blew my whistle for a timeout for Team B while Team A had the ball. The second I did it, I knew I screwed up.

Instead of turning around and looking at Team B's coach and seeing if he still wanted a timeout, I got the ball back as fast as I could, and had Team A inbound it. Coach B never said a word.

Technically, my whistle was inadvertent, so in order to grant a "real" timeout, Coach B would have had to request a new one. So I didn't go out of my way to see if he wanted one.

Now, the game was not close, and this was not a pressure situation, so I'm not sure I explored all of the ramifications of handling it this way, but what do you guys think? How do you think this procedure would be received in a close game?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I had this situation happen to me last night, and I want to know what you guys think.

I blew my whistle for a timeout for Team B while Team A had the ball. The second I did it, I knew I screwed up.

Instead of turning around and looking at Team B's coach and seeing if he still wanted a timeout, I got the ball back as fast as I could, and had Team A inbound it. Coach B never said a word.

Technically, my whistle was inadvertent, so in order to grant a "real" timeout, Coach B would have had to request a new one. So I didn't go out of my way to see if he wanted one.

Now, the game was not close, and this was not a pressure situation, so I'm not sure I explored all of the ramifications of handling it this way, but what do you guys think? How do you think this procedure would be received in a close game?

When you blew the whistle did you say anything or do any type of mechanic?

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

When you blew the whistle did you say anything or do any type of mechanic?

I turned to the table (I was right next to it), pointed to my chest with two thumbs and said "inadvertent whistle." I didn't make a spectacle of it, though.

[Back In The Saddle]

Works for me. If the game resumed quickly and without incident, I think it was an acceptable way to handle that situation.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Works for me. If the game resumed quickly and without incident, I think it was an acceptable way to handle that situation.

Let's say it's a close game, and you use this procedure, and as Team A is inbouding the ball, Coach B starts screaming that he called time out. Do you still think it's an acceptable way to handle it?

Thinking about it, it seems reasonable that you could go to Coach B at the next available opportunity and say "Coach, your first timeout request was invalid, since it came while Team A had the ball. By rule, it was an inadvertent whistle. And since you didn't call timeout while the ball was dead after I blew the whistle, I didn't grant you a timeout."

You would be within the rules to do this, but is it good game management, seeing as though Coach B is likely to blow his stack?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Let's say it's a close game, and you use this procedure, and as Team A is inbouding the ball, Coach B starts screaming that he called time out. Do you still think it's an acceptable way to handle it?

Thinking about it, it seems reasonable that you could go to Coach B at the next available opportunity and say "Coach, your first timeout request was invalid, since it came while Team A had the ball. By rule, it was an inadvertent whistle. And since you didn't call timeout while the ball was dead after I blew the whistle, I didn't grant you a timeout."

You would be within the rules to do this, but is it good game management, seeing as though Coach B is likely to blow his stack?

Don't make this hard or over-think it. If you blow your whistle in response to a request for a timeout, you've granted it. It's over. Most officials at some point in their career are going to grant a timeout when it's not appropriate.

The case play is clear and there's no reason to over-think the situation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Don't make this hard or over-think it. If you blow your whistle in response to a request for a timeout, you've granted it. It's over. Most officials at some point in their career are going to grant a timeout when it's not appropriate.

The case play is clear and there's no reason to over-think the situation.

Agreed. It's a lot easier to explain to coach A that you messed up on this one. It's a very minor mistake, but own up to it and grant the timeout; that's what the rule says.

In a tight game, you could have just stopped the clock for B and given them a double benefit by not charging the TO.

[fiasco]

If you read the casebook, it says Team B is granted the timeout since "it was requested and granted."

What do you define as "granted"?

If I blow my whistle, turn to the table and say "inadvertent whistle," I haven't granted a timeout.