Time Out

[Cubs Baseball]

The scenario we are discussing is: A whistle was blown with Team B dribbling in the backcourt with no real "play" occuring. The official clearly had not granted the time out; he raised his arm with the whistle and before awarding Team A the time out; play stopped. He had two options: Award the time out to Team A or declare "inadvertant whistle"... In my conversations, in polling fellow officials:

It seems the jury is still out; but the ones I have polled said that judgement is huge here. But, inadvertant whistles are part of the game; and that as long as, the pace of play was slow; to use inadvertant whistle. If we blow the whistle during a "play" you will probably have to award the time out and 'suffer the consequences"; but as a whole, the officials I have talked with are not "definitive" in they're opinions.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Cubs Baseball

The scenario we are discussing is: A whistle was blown with Team B dribbling in the backcourt with no real "play" occuring. The official clearly had not granted the time out; he raised his arm with the whistle and before awarding Team A the time out; play stopped. He had two options: Award the time out to Team A or declare "inadvertant whistle"... In my conversations, in polling fellow officials:

It seems the jury is still out; but the ones I have polled said that judgement is huge here. But, inadvertant whistles are part of the game; and that as long as, the pace of play was slow; to use inadvertant whistle. If we blow the whistle during a "play" you will probably have to award the time out and 'suffer the consequences"; but as a whole, the officials I have talked with are not "definitive" in they're opinions.

They should be, the case play is clear. By blowing the whistle for a timeout request, you are granting the timeout.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Cubs Baseball

The scenario we are discussing is: A whistle was blown with Team B dribbling in the backcourt with no real "play" occuring. The official clearly had not granted the time out; he raised his arm with the whistle and before awarding Team A the time out; play stopped. He had two options: Award the time out to Team A or declare "inadvertant whistle"... In my conversations, in polling fellow officials:

It seems the jury is still out; but the ones I have polled said that judgement is huge here. But, inadvertant whistles are part of the game; and that as long as, the pace of play was slow; to use inadvertant whistle. If we blow the whistle during a "play" you will probably have to award the time out and 'suffer the consequences"; but as a whole, the officials I have talked with are not "definitive" in they're opinions.

If the coach requested a TO, and the official blows the whistle to stop play, that official has granted the TO. There is no judgement on this play; the case play is clear that the TO is granted, and it is also an inadvertant whistle. The judgement comes in as to the official not being aware of the situation and blowing the whistle in that case, especially if "the pace of play was slow". If the coach is requesting a TO when they are not entitled to one, the official should simply not blow the whistle, or tell the coach they are not entitled to one at that point.

Simply calling an inadvertant whistle and not granting the TO is setting aside a rule to avoid embarrasment by the official. Too bad - the official should be aware of the game situation and not acknowledged the request in the first place.

I hate disagreeing with a fellow Cub fan, though.

[Mark Padgett]

Try this. If you blow the whistle, the coach gets the timeout. Now that the ball is dead, ask the coach if he wants a timeout "now". If he says yes, that's his second request and you give him two timeouts and charge him for two. Since he never said "30", he gets charged for two fulls. The best part would be if the first one was his last and now he gets a T for the second.

Yeah - try that. I dare ya'.

[Cubs Baseball]

Gotcha...I see your reasoning here! No problem on the Cubs Fan thing...This is our year!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Cubs Baseball

No problem on the Cubs Fan thing...This is our year!

Seems like I've heard that 100 times before.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Seems like I've heard that 100 times before.

101.

But who's counting?

[fiasco]

I had this situation happen to me last night, and I want to know what you guys think.

I blew my whistle for a timeout for Team B while Team A had the ball. The second I did it, I knew I screwed up.

Instead of turning around and looking at Team B's coach and seeing if he still wanted a timeout, I got the ball back as fast as I could, and had Team A inbound it. Coach B never said a word.

Technically, my whistle was inadvertent, so in order to grant a "real" timeout, Coach B would have had to request a new one. So I didn't go out of my way to see if he wanted one.

Now, the game was not close, and this was not a pressure situation, so I'm not sure I explored all of the ramifications of handling it this way, but what do you guys think? How do you think this procedure would be received in a close game?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I had this situation happen to me last night, and I want to know what you guys think.

I blew my whistle for a timeout for Team B while Team A had the ball. The second I did it, I knew I screwed up.

Instead of turning around and looking at Team B's coach and seeing if he still wanted a timeout, I got the ball back as fast as I could, and had Team A inbound it. Coach B never said a word.

Technically, my whistle was inadvertent, so in order to grant a "real" timeout, Coach B would have had to request a new one. So I didn't go out of my way to see if he wanted one.

Now, the game was not close, and this was not a pressure situation, so I'm not sure I explored all of the ramifications of handling it this way, but what do you guys think? How do you think this procedure would be received in a close game?

When you blew the whistle did you say anything or do any type of mechanic?

[Cubs Baseball]

Good reasoning...I looked at the Case Book and did not see that one had to grant the time out...the case book clearly states that "if granted"...so, not to be weak in the knees here; it just seemed this official, didn't check off on his time-out and could have resolved the issue with an inadvertant whistle...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Cubs Baseball

Good reasoning...I looked at the Case Book and did not see that one had to grant the time out...the case book clearly states that "if granted"...so, not to be weak in the knees here; it just seemed this official, didn't check off on his time-out and could have resolved the issue with an inadvertant whistle...

Even without the case play, I'm granting this once I blow my whistle. The coach caused me to blow the whistle by requesting a TO.

1. If he still wants it, you have to give it to him as now the ball is dead.
2. If he just wanted the clock to stop, you should charge him the TO so he can't keep doing it.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Even without the case play, I'm granting this once I blow my whistle. The coach caused me to blow the whistle by requesting a TO.

1. If he still wants it, you have to give it to him as now the ball is dead the case book says so.
2. If he just wanted the clock to stop, you should charge him the TO so he can't keep doing it.

Yea, I'm just picking nits.

In NCAA, it is simply an inadvertant whistle, no TO is granted at that time, but since the ball is now dead, either team could still request and be granted a TO. This is what my fellow Cub Fan is suggesting. Unfortunately, you cannot do that under Fed. rules. I know we've had discussions in the past as to when a TO is actually granted. Some say it is granted even before the whistle is blown, which allows for the situation where a coach may request one during a quick sequence where they would be allowed, but by the time the whistle blows the situation may have changed (say, for example, an attempt at a quick inbounds after a basket). But, once an official hears the request and blows the whistle, the TO is granted. It may seem "fair" to not grant it, but that's not allowed. It is similar to a team asking for an exessive TO at the end of the game - some officials say they would ignore the request to "save" the T, but that is not allowed. The request is granted at the expense of the T.

But #2 could be the reason they put that case in there, so that coaches do not take advantage of talking an official into stopping the clock to set up a press, for example.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Cubs Baseball

The scenario we are discussing is: A whistle was blown with Team B dribbling in the backcourt with no real "play" occuring. The official clearly had not granted the time out; he raised his arm with the whistle and before awarding Team A the time out; play stopped. He had two options: Award the time out to Team A or declare "inadvertant whistle"... In my conversations, in polling fellow officials:

It seems the jury is still out; but the ones I have polled said that judgement is huge here. But, inadvertant whistles are part of the game; and that as long as, the pace of play was slow; to use inadvertant whistle. If we blow the whistle during a "play" you will probably have to award the time out and 'suffer the consequences"; but as a whole, the officials I have talked with are not "definitive" in they're opinions.

The jury is not out at all......

NCAA - inadvertant whistle
NFHS - Grant the time out