Duke/WFU end of game

[fiasco]

Anyone see this one? Tie ball game, with a few seconds left, Duke rebounds the ball while a Wake Forest player is on the floor. The Duke player lands on the WFU player, causing him to fall to the floor. The officials call a travel on Duke, giving WFU the ball on the endline with almost 3 seconds left. They score and win.

If the guy is on the floor, presumably he doesn't have LGP, no? If contact is made that puts the ball handler at a disadvantage, wouldn't you have a foul?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Anyone see this one? Tie ball game, with a few seconds left, Duke rebounds the ball while a Wake Forest player is on the floor. The Duke player lands on the WFU player, causing him to fall to the floor. The officials call a travel on Duke, giving WFU the ball on the endline with almost 3 seconds left. They score and win.

If the guy is on the floor, presumably he doesn't have LGP, no? If contact is made that puts the ball handler at a disadvantage, wouldn't you have a foul?

Are you saying that you wanted the officials to call a foul and send Duke down to the other end so that they could make FTs and win?

[JRutledge]

This is already being discussed on this site.

Rebounder Falls on Defender

Peace

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Are you saying that you wanted the officials to call a foul and send Duke down to the other end so that they could make FTs and win?

I'm just talking about the rules. I understand sometimes those don't apply in college basketball, but still.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I'm just talking about the rules. I understand sometimes those don't apply in college basketball, but still.

Can you show me the rule (at any level) that shows a player on the floor is in LGP? Better yet, how was LGP established in this case?

Peace

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Can you show me the rule (at any level) that shows a player on the floor is in LGP? Better yet, how was LGP established in this case?

Peace

I'm arguing neither of your points.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Can you show me the rule (at any level) that shows a player on the floor is in LGP? Better yet, how was LGP established in this case?

The NFHS used to have just such a case play, but it was removed without comment a few years ago.

Is it still in force? That is a matter of opinion.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I'm arguing neither of your points.

Then what are you debating? I do not understand how a foul should be called based on what I know of the play?

Peace

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then what are you debating? I do not understand how a foul should be called based on what I know of the play?

Peace

You asked me to demonstrate how LGP was established when I'm the one who said that it wasn't established. What's with the runaround?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NFHS used to have just such a case play, but it was removed without comment a few years ago.

Is it still in force? That is a matter of opinion.

I saw what you said and even remember the play mentioned. From what I understand anytime something is removed, the ruling has likely changed or does not fit the current interpretations. This was also an NCAA game, so what the NF might say on this might not apply. I am just trying to understand what rule says this would be only a foul on the player that fell on top of another player as stated in this situation.

Let me take it a step further, I also do not think the rules were intended or it makes good common sense to call a foul on anyone in this specific situation. But that is after all an opinion. I am sure some might disagree. I just would like a rule to back that up before I am able to make that leap.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fiasco

You asked me to demonstrate how LGP was established when I'm the one who said that it wasn't established. What's with the runaround?

In order to have a foul, I would think the player on the floor at some point would have to establish a legal position. If there is no such action that took place before the contact, then there is no rules basis to call a foul on a player falling down, unless there is an interpretation that supports such action. Now you are the one that accused the officials of not following the rules. I am just asking you to show something other than your opinion that the rule was clearly violated. Remember, you said this was rather clear.

Peace

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

In order to have a foul, I would think the player on the floor at some point would have to establish a legal position. I

What?

To have a foul on the defense, they are required to have established LGP?

Are you listening to yourself?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fiasco

What?

To have a foul on the defense, they are required to have established LGP?

Are you listening to yourself?

No you do not need LGP to have all kinds of fouls (verticality, screening, position on the floor). If there is a foul "by rule" (your words) then you should be able to show something that backs up that this is a rulebook foul. I do not see anything in the NCAA Rulebook or interpretations that suggest players falling to the floor is "by rule" a foul. And instead of just giving that reference, you have not only accused the officials of not calling a foul because of who was involved or how the game was broadcast. I would like a little more evidence than what you think, but a reference. And as someone else said, you are starting to sound like a fan boy and not an official. Then again that would not be the first time that has happen on this site.

Peace

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No you do not need LGP to have all kinds of fouls (verticality, screening, position on the floor). If there is a foul "by rule" (your words) then you should be able to show something that backs up that this is a rulebook foul. I do not see anything in the NCAA Rulebook or interpretations that suggest players falling to the floor is "by rule" a foul. And instead of just giving that reference, you have not only accused the officials of not calling a foul because of who was involved or how the game was broadcast. I would like a little more evidence than what you think, but a reference. And as someone else said, you are starting to sound like a fan boy and not an official. Then again that would not be the first time that has happen on this site.

Peace

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

You said:

In order to have a foul, I would think the player on the floor at some point would have to establish a legal position.

and then, not two posts later, you said:

No you do not need LGP to have all kinds of fouls

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Anyone see this one? Tie ball game, with a few seconds left, Duke rebounds the ball while a Wake Forest player is on the floor. The Duke player lands on the WFU player, causing him to fall to the floor. The officials call a travel on Duke, giving WFU the ball on the endline with almost 3 seconds left. They score and win.

If the guy is on the floor, presumably he doesn't have LGP, no? If contact is made that puts the ball handler at a disadvantage, wouldn't you have a foul?

There is an NCAA ruling that says this is a foul on the player lying on the floor. It's been posted here many times before.