Correctable Error Situation....First Part...

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Nevadaref,
Regardless how eloquently stated, I think the NFHS implementation here is poor at best.

The rule is the same in NCAA, so it's not just FED.

That said, rules change requests are due to NCAA on 2/1 (I think). I don't know the date they are neeeded to FED, but you can submit one. Based on the recent rules interps (more of a "go back and do it over" result), some in FED agree with you, so it might have a chance of passing.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The rule is the same in NCAA, so it's not just FED.

That said, rules change requests are due to NCAA on 2/1 (I think). I don't know the date they are neeeded to FED, but you can submit one. Based on the recent rules interps (more of a "go back and do it over" result), some in FED agree with you, so it might have a chance of passing.

Bob,
Thanks.....

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The philosophy of the CE rule has been debated many times. Either BktBallRef or Bob Jenkins put it very elegantly. The comment was that the rule is not designed to be fair. It is designed such that each team has an incentive to prevent the error from occurring and get the situation right in the first place. Otherwise, what at first looks to be a potential benefit to their team may well come back to hurt them later. That can clearly be seen in the situation which you have posed.

The team which committed the technical foul earlier should have pointed out to the officials that this foul was incorrectly not being counted as a team foul. There was significant time to do this prior to the 7th team foul of the half being committed. Instead it is possible that this team thought, "Oh good, they aren't counting the T as a team foul. That's good for us." However, later it came back to cost them.

And I totally disagree with this line of thinking. Team A is more likely to have known that they were supposed to shoot and purposely waited until after its possession to point out the error.

I'm of the opinion that once Team A scores a basket they should no longer be allowed to go back an shoot free throws.

[jearef]

CMHCoach:

I got into a really good debate with BBR and Woody a year or two ago on the Federation message board over this very issue. Wish I still had the link to that thread at hand. The case I posed was the same as yours, except that I had Team A hitting a 3 before the error was discovered. My argument was that, in fairness, we should try to come up with a way to rule that it is too late to remedy the error of failing to award the merited free throws. I said I would rule that after the 3 was made, the ball was available to team B for the throw-in and was thus alive, making it too late to correct the error. The veterans pounced on me, and in retrospect, I think rightly so.

Hard to understand why the Fed wouldn't amend the rule to state that in the case of failing to award a merited free throw, if team A scores on the ensuing possession, the error can no longer be corrected.

In the play you posted, the officials were right to correct the error, but wrong to allow play to resume from the missed free throw. Should have gone to Team B for an endline throw. Since A scores off the missed FT, if coach B asks us what is up with that, can we cancel that goal? Seems to me argument can be made that we have set aside a rule and thus erroneously failed to cancel a goal. Thoughts, everyone?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jearef

Hard to understand why the Fed wouldn't amend the rule to state that in the case of failing to award a merited free throw, if team A scores on the ensuing possession, the error can no longer be corrected.

Perhaps it's never been presented to them? Perhaps the coaches like it the way it is.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by jearef

CMHCoach:

I got into a really good debate with BBR and Woody a year or two ago on the Federation message board over this very issue. Wish I still had the link to that thread at hand. The case I posed was the same as yours, except that I had Team A hitting a 3 before the error was discovered. My argument was that, in fairness, we should try to come up with a way to rule that it is too late to remedy the error of failing to award the merited free throws. I said I would rule that after the 3 was made, the ball was available to team B for the throw-in and was thus alive, making it too late to correct the error. The veterans pounced on me, and in retrospect, I think rightly so.

Hard to understand why the Fed wouldn't amend the rule to state that in the case of failing to award a merited free throw, if team A scores on the ensuing possession, the error can no longer be corrected.

In the play you posted, the officials were right to correct the error, but wrong to allow play to resume from the missed free throw. Should have gone to Team B for an endline throw. Since A scores off the missed FT, if coach B asks us what is up with that, can we cancel that goal? Seems to me argument can be made that we have set aside a rule and thus erroneously failed to cancel a goal. Thoughts, everyone?

jearef,
I actually fabricated the part about the handling of free throws. My entire point was to get to the second part -- the correction is unfairly burdensome on the offending team.

I am going to take Bob Jenkins advice and submit a proposal to change the implementation, in this case.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The rule is the same in NCAA, so it's not just FED.

That said, rules change requests are due to NCAA on 2/1 (I think). I don't know the date they are neeeded to FED, but you can submit one. Based on the recent rules interps (more of a "go back and do it over" result), some in FED agree with you, so it might have a chance of passing.

Bob,
Do you know the process, here? How would I go about submitting a request?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Bob,
Do you know the process, here? How would I go about submitting a request?

There might be something on the NFHS web-site about how to do this.

Or, contact them or your state association.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

There might be something on the NFHS web-site about how to do this.

Or, contact them or your state association.

I took your advice and contacted the OHSAA.