Back Court Questions

[williebfree]

Because no team or player control was established in the front court.

[just another ref]

The jump ball ends when the ball hits the floor or the referee. Therefore if the player jumps from frontcourt, secures control while airborne, then lands in the backcourt, 2 & 3 would be violations.

[ga314ref]

Originally Posted by williebfree

Because no team or player control was established in the front court.

Except in the case of the throw-in, and there is no backcourt violation on a throw-in because there is no player or team control during a throw-in.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by ga314ref

Except in the case of the throw-in, and there is no backcourt violation on a throw-in because there is no player or team control during a throw-in.

Right ruling, wrong reason. The reason is that there is a specific exclusion in the rules for the throw-in play.

[Scrapper1]

Seems like somebody should have posted a backcourt violation quiz earlier this season. . .

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Seems like somebody should have posted a backcourt violation quiz earlier this season. . .

Note to Billy Mac,
As I mentioned in my post in the other forum, I am thinking that there are a lot of things that go on around the division line (what was the purpose of that thing again? ), that officials and coaches misunderstand. This causes them to mis-apply the rules.

[mbyron]

Had one just last night in a frosh game. A has the ball in their FC. B tips the ball. A1 grabs the ball and straddles the division line.

I replayed this in my head and whistled the violation. The A coach said, "he tipped it," which, while true, wasn't at all the issue.

I said: "That's right, coach. But your player touched the ball, and THEN stepped in the BC. That's a violation."

He had a 20 point lead and didn't say anything more. He was also asking about whether his players get "2 steps."

[jearef]

Sitch 1. No violation, due to specific exception set forth in Rule 9-9-3.

Sitch 2. Jump ball ends when ball strikes the floor, so 9-9-3 exception no longer applies. When A3 jumps from the frontcourt and secures the ball in the air, we now have Team A in control of a ball which is located in the frontcourt. When A3 lands in the backcourt, we have a violation.

Sitch 3. Ball striking the official is the same as touching the court at the official's location. Jump ball ends when the ball strikes the floor. A3 jumps from the frontcourt and secures the ball in the air, giving Team A control of a ball located in its frontcourt. When A3 lands in the backcourt, he violates.

Sitch 4. No violation, due to specific exception set forth in Rule 9-9-3.

Location of the ball and team/player control are pretty basic rules concepts.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by jearef

Location of the ball and team/player control are pretty basic rules concepts.

Yes, the location of the ball and team/player control are pretty basic rules concepts. The components that make these situations more complex is that as an official, you also need to know precisely when a jump ball ends (touches anything on or associated with the court and the two baskets), vs. when a throw-in ends (touched by a player on the court or goes out of bounds or is touched while a player is out of bounds). In addition, the official must know the exceptions to the back court provisions (defensive player, first player to touch on a throw-in or jump ball).

Hence the reason more than one official got at least one of the situations wrong.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jearef

Sitch 1. No violation, due to specific exception set forth in Rule 9-9-3.

Sitch 2. Jump ball ends when ball strikes the floor, so 9-9-3 exception no longer applies. When A3 jumps from the frontcourt and secures the ball in the air, we now have Team A in control of a ball which is located in the frontcourt. When A3 lands in the backcourt, we have a violation.

Sitch 3. Ball striking the official is the same as touching the court at the official's location. Jump ball ends when the ball strikes the floor. A3 jumps from the frontcourt and secures the ball in the air, giving Team A control of a ball located in its frontcourt. When A3 lands in the backcourt, he violates.

Sitch 4. No violation, due to specific exception set forth in Rule 9-9-3.

Location of the ball and team/player control are pretty basic rules concepts.

Not sure that I concur with you on #3.
4-28-3 lists when the jump ball ends. Striking an official is not there.
It is true that 4-4-4 tells us that a ball contacting an official is treated the same as the ball contacting the floor at that location, but this statement is made within the context of ball location. So it may well be that this is only true for determining the location of the ball and may not be true for determining if a jump ball has ended.

To explain a bit further, the same rule 4-4-4 also says that the ball hitting a player is treated the same as the ball striking the floor at that location, but would you consider the ball to have hit the floor and thus the jump ball to have ended, if A1 taps the ball and then it strikes jumper B1 in the head while he is in contact with the floor? I doubt it because the ball has not touched a non-jumper.

So to test our understanding of play #3, I'll add play #5:
Jumpers A1 and B1 leap into the air and tap the tossed ball simultaneously. After the players have returned to the floor, the ball drops and strikes B1 in the head. The ball bounces high into the air and A2 jumps from his frontcourt, catches the ball in while airborne, and lands in his backcourt. Is this a violation?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by williebfree

Because no team or player control was established in the front court.

Wrong. TC and PC were established in the FC.

These would all be violations except for the exceptions in the rule (for plays 1 and 4).