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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 05:41pm
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A1 is dribbling near the divison line (in his front court) when B1 slaps the ball which hits A1 in the leg and goes into A's back court. A1 is the first to touch the ball and regains control of the ball. Now I know the rule says that is a back court and I also know why. But my problem is, I get grief from evaluators, varsity officals and lets not mention coaches every time it happens, 3 times this year alone. I know if I am being evaluated there will be this long drawn-out discussion which I would rather avoid. Not to mention there isn't a coach anywhere around who will argue with me if I let it go. So what should I do? Continue to enforce the rule as written, or try and keep the peace and look good for my evaluators?
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Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 05:48pm
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Have to call it as it is written. For whatever reason, it seems to be happening more than ever to me this year. If I've called 10 back-court violations since Jan. 1, I'm guessing low.

The call is difficult to make but I think it goes hand-in-hand with the new team control rules this season. As you explain it to coaches, they seem more and more to be understanding the idea that team control exists when the ball is being passed between players of the same team and that team control doesn't end because a player from the other team touched the ball.

my 2cents
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Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 05:49pm
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Sounds like you need to open up the NFHS rule book for your assignors and fellow officials and do a little education.
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Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 10:59pm
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Next time an evaluator tells you not to enforce this as written, ask him (or her) to also tell you what other rules you are not supposed to enforce.
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Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 11:16pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Next time an evaluator tells you not to enforce this as written, ask him (or her) to also tell you what other rules you are not supposed to enforce.
I wouldn't recommend doing that. I would just continue to enforce it properly.
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Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 11:49pm
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Had to call that tonight and as usual the crowd went nuts, however not a peep out of the coaches, I think it's finally sunk in! Whew!!!!!
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Old Wed Feb 01, 2006, 06:29pm
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Cory,

Do it right. If the evaluator has a problem with that, have him take it up with Kurt or Jerry. You know they will both back you up.

K
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Old Wed Feb 01, 2006, 07:39pm
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quote:
originally posted by KenThree:

"The call is difficult to make but I think it goes hand-in-hand with the new team control rules this season".


Can anyone post the new team rules they are referring too in the posts above?

Thanks
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Old Wed Feb 01, 2006, 08:03pm
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Happened to me last night. I think the best way to remember it, and to explain it, is to state that when the defense knocks the ball out, and the ball goes into the back court where it is touched by the offense, the defense never gains team control, therefore team control remains with the offense. It's easier than trying to explain that team control is not lost on an interrupted dribble.

P.S. I can understand that spectators don't know the rules, but coaches?
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Old Wed Feb 01, 2006, 09:30pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by robertclasalle
Happened to me last night. I think the best way to remember it, and to explain it, is to state that when the defense knocks the ball out, and the ball goes into the back court where it is touched by the offense, the defense never gains team control, therefore team control remains with the offense. It's easier than trying to explain that team control is not lost on an interrupted dribble.

P.S. I can understand that spectators don't know the rules, but coaches?
This is not about team control remaining with team A, nor about team control after an interupted dribble. Yes, team control is necessary however. I will try to quote several others here but mostly BasketBallRef,

1)team control
2)ball obtains FC status
3)ball then gains BC status
4)team in control last to touch in FC
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Old Wed Feb 01, 2006, 09:57pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by SamIAm
Quote:
Originally posted by robertclasalle
Happened to me last night. I think the best way to remember it, and to explain it, is to state that when the defense knocks the ball out, and the ball goes into the back court where it is touched by the offense, the defense never gains team control, therefore team control remains with the offense. It's easier than trying to explain that team control is not lost on an interrupted dribble.

P.S. I can understand that spectators don't know the rules, but coaches?
This is not about team control remaining with team A, nor about team control after an interupted dribble. Yes, team control is necessary however. I will try to quote several others here but mostly BasketBallRef,

1)team control
2)ball obtains FC status
3)ball then gains BC status
4)team in control last to touch in FC
Pretty close:
1) team control
2) ball obtains FC status
3) last to touch ball before it goes to BC
4) first to touch ball after it goes to BC
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Old Wed Feb 01, 2006, 11:42pm
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7-5-5; 4-19-7 New - Changed the penalty to a throw-in for a team-control foul in all cases. A new definition for a team-control foul was also added.

The change in penalty makes it important that official(s) know whether team control exists when a foul occurs. Thus, imho, knowing the defintion of team control has become more significant this season. Team control is the key to the play described in previous posts.

Here's an example that happened last night where knowing the team control rule also mattered. NFHS game with 3-person crew:
Team A in control in front court in my primary area as T. A1 rises to shoot and L sounds whistle as ball is released and heads toward basket. L has foul on A2 for pushing in the lane. As T I have indicated 3-point attempt as whistle sounds, ball misses and then close down to help my partner by identifying shooter as we are in the bonus and may need to go to the other end for 1-and-1. At this point, no one has indicated free throws or not and I stop my partner as he passes me to report. I ask if he had foul before or after the 3-point try. He clearly indicates the foul occured before the try, (when Team A was in control) although he whistle sounded after the release (when Team A was not in control).
Because the foul occured while A was still in team control (before the shot), we award the ball to B on the endline rather than shoot bonus. That split second between before and after the attempt meant the difference in potential two free throws for the trailing team in a 4-point game with less than 2 minutes to play.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 11:08pm
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had it tonight...

Working a two-man VB game and made this call early in the 1st ct. The entire house went nuts. Coaches, players, fans. Later in the game, we had a situation where A1 in the FC, tap by B1 into the BC, recovered by A1 in the BC. No whistle, coaches wanted an explanation...make a short story long, they lost by 25, so those two calls cost them the game...
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Old Sat Feb 04, 2006, 01:54am
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KenThree,
I will agree that a side affect of the rule change is a more conscious awareness of team control, and that helps with the back court calls. However, let's be careful not to leave the impression that this team control change has any affect on the backcourt violation.
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Old Sat Feb 04, 2006, 01:56am
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Re: had it tonight...

Quote:
Originally posted by bdub712
Working a two-man VB game and made this call early in the 1st ct. The entire house went nuts. Coaches, players, fans. Later in the game, we had a situation where A1 in the FC, tap by B1 into the BC, recovered by A1 in the BC. No whistle, coaches wanted an explanation...make a short story long, they lost by 25, so those two calls cost them the game...
And some coaches wonder why refs are gun-shy about giving explanations...?
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