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-   -   Foul on shot causes travel. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50755-foul-shot-causes-travel.html)

Adam Wed Jan 07, 2009 04:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 565829)
I'd have to see this play, but I don't picture a shooting motion that starts before the first landing in this case.
By rule, the shooting motion starts when as a player is gathering the ball for a layup; well before the first landing. Too many officials don't give them this, though.

just another ref Wed Jan 07, 2009 04:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 565839)
By rule, the shooting motion starts when as a player is gathering the ball for a layup; well before the first landing.
This is based on what?

Adam Wed Jan 07, 2009 04:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 565844)
This is based on what?
This wording:
Quote:
The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball.

just another ref Wed Jan 07, 2009 04:10pm
I think this is a stretch. A player may do anything after he "gathers the ball" at the end of a dribble. Also, MTD's play could be any kind of shot, not necessarily a layup. A player often shoots a fadeaway after a jump stop.

Adam Wed Jan 07, 2009 04:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 565849)
I think this is a stretch. A player may do anything after he "gathers the ball" at the end of a dribble. Also, MTD's play could be any kind of shot, not necessarily a layup. A player often shoots a fadeaway after a jump stop.
A player may do anything after he jumps for a shot, too, but that doesn't matter. See the whole play.

Camron Rust Wed Jan 07, 2009 05:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 565584)
I'll probably count those, just because I'm not watching the feet so closely when I've already called contact.

Have you ever seen a high level official wave a shot off for this reason? I haven't, and I doubt I'd want to be the first.
I have....once. Took a brief explanation to the coach and he agreed because he saw his player take the extra steps.

Adam Wed Jan 07, 2009 05:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 565894)
I have....once. Took a brief explanation to the coach and he agreed because he saw his player take the extra steps.
Extra steps I can understand; 99% of kids give up by then. I just don't know if I'd be able to see the pivot foot slide.

Rich Wed Jan 07, 2009 06:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 565628)
So if you start you shooting motion and I push you and you take 3 steps you are going to going to let your partner count the basket?
I'll let you know if that happens in the next 22 years of my "career." LOL.

Garden variety travel? I probably won't even be looking for it.

Raymond Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 565899)
Extra steps I can understand; 99% of kids give up by then. I just don't know if I'd be able to see the pivot foot slide.
Well, I saw it....and administered accordingly.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eg-italy (Post 565820)
I talk about FIBA rules: the act of shooting ends when the player returns with both feet on the floor after releasing the ball (15.2).

But the problem of the OP is different; Robert was only asking about the basket, not about shooting attempt. It's clear that traveling before releasing the ball, but after being fouled, causes the ball to become dead: wave off the basket and award two FT. But I concur with others in saying that I'd not be looking very closely to the fouled player's feet.

Ciao

eg:

I knew that but I think that is a minor point. NCAA Men's use to have that same proviso but is not in line with NFHS and NCAA Women's. But I agree that once we see the contact we tend to forbet about the player's feet.

MTD, Sr.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 565829)
I'd have to see this play, but I don't picture a shooting motion that starts before the first landing in this case.


just another ref:

Look at it this way: What is the first thing, that a player who is dribbling the ball, have to do to shoot the ball? Stop his dribble. The stopping of the dribble is the start of the act of shooting.

Going back to my OP. While the illegal contact can occur very early in the "potential" act of shooting. Go ahead and sound your whistle when the contact occurs, but see the whole play. Why? If at any time after the illegal contact A1 passes the ball instead of releasing the ball for a field attempt the foul is a common foul and not a foul against a player in the act of shooting.

MTD, Sr.

just another ref Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 565984)
just another ref:

Look at it this way: What is the first thing, that a player who is dribbling the ball, have to do to shoot the ball? Stop his dribble. The stopping of the dribble is the start of the act of shooting.
not necessarily

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 565995)
not necessarily


just another ref:

It is if he ends up shooting the ball, :D.

MTD, Sr.

just another ref Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 565996)
just another ref:

It is if he ends up shooting the ball, :D.

MTD, Sr.

A player may pick up his dribble and stand still for any period of time and then "end up shooting the ball."

Adam Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 565998)
A player may pick up his dribble and stand still for any period of time and then "end up shooting the ball."
It's all about the habitual shooting motion, not just picking up your dribble. On a player shooting a layup, this starts early.

The player doing a jump stop could also start this motion on his way down as he gathers the ball for his shot.


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