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-   -   Foul on shot causes travel. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50755-foul-shot-causes-travel.html)

GoodwillRef Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 565590)
Which you won't get, because I would be scoring the basket (in my mind) right with the calling official.

So if you start you shooting motion and I push you and you take 3 steps you are going to going to let your partner count the basket?

Adam Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 565628)
So if you start you shooting motion and I push you and you take 3 steps you are going to going to let your partner count the basket?

Three steps, I'll see. Two steps, I'll see. Pivot foot dragging, I probably won't see.

JugglingReferee Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert E. Harrison (Post 565564)
As a player is going up for a try he is bumped. The bump causes the pivot foot that had been lifted on the try to return to the floor before the ball is released. The ball is released shortly after the pivot foot returns to the floor and the ball goes through the basket.

Do you count the basket or award two shots and disallow the basket.
I have also seen the bump cause the shooter to drag his pivot foot before releasing the ball on the try.

Thanks for the help.

A player cannot commit a violation or foul after they've been fouled, and expect that the shot will still count if successful.

If they could, a little bit of pondering will make you realize that players could take advantage of this, and how they would do it. Since we don't see players taking advantage of this situation, there must not be this situation to be taken advantage of! Whistle the foul, waive the basket off and signal the reason why: travelling. Award 2 or 3 shots.

fullor30 Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 565620)
I'll delete the evidence. :D

You weren't at Watergate were you???:D

GoodwillRef Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 565636)
A player cannot commit a violation or foul after they've been fouled, and expect that the shot will still count if succesful.

If they could, a little bit of pondering will make you realize that players could take advantage of this, and how they would do it. Since we don't see players taking advantage of this situation, there must not be this situation to be taken advantage of! Whistle the foul, waive the basket off and signal the reason why: travelling. Award 2 or 3 shots.

A player cannot commit a violation or foul after they've been fouled, and expect that the shot will still count if succesful.

What page in the rule book is this on?

Adam Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 565643)
You weren't at Watergate were you???:D

obviously not. :)

JugglingReferee Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 565644)
A player cannot commit a violation or foul after they've been fouled, and expect that the shot will still count if succesful.

What page in the rule book is this on?

Say A1 gets fouled, and then takes 3 steps, releases the ball, and it goes in. Are you going to count it?

bob jenkins Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 565644)
A player cannot commit a violation or foul after they've been fouled, and expect that the shot will still count if succesful.

What page in the rule book is this on?

The one where a ball becomews dead if a violation occurs and there's no exception for "continuous motion".

SmokeEater Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 565649)
ROBERT E. HARRISON
"As a player is going up for a try he is bumped"

ROBERT E. HARRISON
"The bump causes the pivot foot that had been lifted on the try to return to the floor before the ball is released. The ball is released shortly after the pivot foot returns to the floor and the ball goes through the basket."

Therefore what BBR & Juggler says is correct.

asdf Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:39am

If you are quick enough to realize that the foul caused the travel, then you should be quick enough to know that the "travel" ends the try and no points can then be awarded...

Shoot 2 FT's and score no points.

Indianaref Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeEater (Post 565665)
ROBERT E. HARRISON
"The bump causes the pivot foot that had been lifted on the try to return to the floor before the ball is released. The ball is released shortly after the pivot foot returns to the floor and the ball goes through the basket."

Therefore what BBR & Juggler says is correct.

Yes. You and Bob are correct. Continuous motion does not apply since the violation occurred and before the ball had left his hand. 2 shots.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Jan 07, 2009 02:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 565577)
I will add if it's an airborne shooter who gets fouled, once he returns to the floor with the ball, it's gonna be two shots.



Snaqs:

Don't be so quick with that response. NFHS, NCAA, and FIBA rules:

PLAY: A1 is dribbling toward Team A's basket. While both feet are in the air, A1 stops his dribble by gathering (with apologies to the NBA) the ball into both hands. In one continuous motion A1 lands on his left foot, then jumps off his left foot and lands on his right foot, then jumps off is right foot, and then releases the ball for a field goal attempt. The field goal attempt is successful.

QUESTION: If A1 is fouled at any point after he stopped his dribble and before he returns to the floor after releasing the ball for his field goal attepmt, has he be fouled in the act of shooting?

RULING: Yes. A1 was airborne three (3) different times during his field goal attempt. See NFHS Rules R4-S11-A1 and A2. The NCAA and FIBA rules concur.

MTD, Sr.

Adam Wed Jan 07, 2009 02:54pm

Good point, Mark. Obviously, that's not the play I was envisioning.

eg-italy Wed Jan 07, 2009 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 565764)
Snaqs:

Don't be so quick with that response. NFHS, NCAA, and FIBA rules:

PLAY: A1 is dribbling toward Team A's basket. While both feet are in the air, A1 stops his dribble by gathering (with apologies to the NBA) the ball into both hands. In one continuous motion A1 lands on his left foot, then jumps off his left foot and lands on his right foot, then jumps off is right foot, and then releases the ball for a field goal attempt. The field goal attempt is successful.

QUESTION: If A1 is fouled at any point after he stopped his dribble and before he returns to the floor after releasing the ball for his field goal attepmt, has he be fouled in the act of shooting?

RULING: Yes. A1 was airborne three (3) different times during his field goal attempt. See NFHS Rules R4-S11-A1 and A2. The NCAA and FIBA rules concur.

I talk about FIBA rules: the act of shooting ends when the player returns with both feet on the floor after releasing the ball (15.2).

But the problem of the OP is different; Robert was only asking about the basket, not about shooting attempt. It's clear that traveling before releasing the ball, but after being fouled, causes the ball to become dead: wave off the basket and award two FT. But I concur with others in saying that I'd not be looking very closely to the fouled player's feet.

Ciao

just another ref Wed Jan 07, 2009 03:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 565764)
Snaqs:

Don't be so quick with that response. NFHS, NCAA, and FIBA rules:

PLAY: A1 is dribbling toward Team A's basket. While both feet are in the air, A1 stops his dribble by gathering (with apologies to the NBA) the ball into both hands. In one continuous motion A1 lands on his left foot, then jumps off his left foot and lands on his right foot, then jumps off is right foot, and then releases the ball for a field goal attempt. The field goal attempt is successful.

QUESTION: If A1 is fouled at any point after he stopped his dribble and before he returns to the floor after releasing the ball for his field goal attepmt, has he be fouled in the act of shooting?

RULING: Yes. A1 was airborne three (3) different times during his field goal attempt. See NFHS Rules R4-S11-A1 and A2. The NCAA and FIBA rules concur.

MTD, Sr.

I'd have to see this play, but I don't picture a shooting motion that starts before the first landing in this case.


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