Placing the ball on the floor...

[cardinalfan]

Originally Posted by bc7

2- I think it would help both myself and my partner, as well as the team know what is going to happen after the timeout. Obviously we all SHOULD know that, but that doesn't always happen, especially when working with inexperienced officials.

Thoughts?

If I have the ball on the sideline, I either set the ball on the floor or hold it in the direction we will be going at resumption. If I'm on the end during the timeout, I hold (or sit) the ball in front or behind me.
Eliminates the times during boring games when the teams come out of the huddle, and I can't remember which way the ball is going!

Our assignor here in our largest class level of high school recently sent out an email not to set the ball on the floor during timeouts. Not sure why, but he's the boss!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I don't like this mechanic at any level, NBA/WNBA, FIBA, NCAA, or NFHS.

Just my humble () opinion.

MTD, Sr.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by cardinalfan

Our assignor here in our largest class level of high school recently sent out an email not to set the ball on the floor during timeouts. Not sure why, but he's the boss!

Because he is full of himself.

People can certainly have opinions about they like and what they don't, but they shouldn't be instructing people not to do things that are permitted by the national federation/state association.

I don't mind people having a preference for one way or the other, but I think that it is over the top to adopt a "my way is the only way" attitude.

My experience is that people such as your assignor also tell officials not to make certain calls or to call plays a certain way despite what the rules say. I can't stand that.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Because he is full of himself.

People can certainly have opinions about they like and what they don't, but they shouldn't be instructing people not to do things that are permitted by the national federation/state association.

I don't mind people having a preference for one way or the other, but I think that it is over the top to adopt a "my way is the only way" attitude.

My experience is that people such as your assignor also tell officials not to make certain calls or to call plays a certain way despite what the rules say. I can't stand that.

You know, holding in your feelings like this is only going to hurt you in the long run.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by cardinalfan

Our assignor recently sent out an email not to set the ball on the floor during timeouts.

I believe that putting the ball on the floor only showed up in the mechanics manuals, definitely the IAABO manual, just recently, although some of us have been doing it for many years.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

NFHS from the 2007-09 Basketball Officials Manual: Sections 2.4.3.C.3 and 3.4.3.C.3 both state that: "If the administering official needs to leave the throw-in spot, he/she may place the ball on the floor at the spot."

NCAA Women's from the 2008-09 CCA Women's Basketball Officials Manual: Section 3.4.3.A.3 states: "Put the ball at the spot where play will be resumed with a throw-in only if spot is to be vacated."

NCAA Men's from the 2008-09 CCA Men's Basketball Officials Manual: There is no such provision in the Men's Manual.

FIBA Two- and Three-Person Crews: There is no such provision in either manual.

WNBA/NBA Officials Manual: I do not have a copy of the WNBA/NBA Manual but I have seen the officails place the ball on the floor per NFHS and NCAA Women's manuals so I assume that it is allowed per WNBA/NBA Manual.

IAABO: For those of you that officiate in areas that use the IAABO Basketball Officials Manual: The 2008-09 Two- and Three-Person Manuals has no such provision. The IAABO Manual is very very simular to the NFHS Manual.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. But I still stand by my humble opinion that it does not look good at any level and I would never do it and I would recommend to other officials not to do it.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I believe that putting the ball on the floor only showed up in the mechanics manuals, definitely the IAABO manual, just recently, although some of us have been doing it for many years.

Billy,

I thought so too. But the IAABO manual does not allow the ball to be placed on the floor. It requires the official to stand at the throw-in spot with the ball facing the direction of the throw-in .. or if a free throw will follow, to stand in-line with the official at the division line. (Timeout procedures R, S, T & V.)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

I thought so too. But the IAABO manual does not allow the ball to be placed on the floor. It requires the official to stand at the throw-in spot with the ball facing the direction of the throw-in, or if a free throw will follow, to stand in-line with the official at the division line.

At our local board's October 24, 2007 meeting we were told that there were three changes in IAABO mechanics for the 2007-08 season:
1) Not Closely Guarded Signal.
2) Referee can delegate jump ball toss.
3) Ball allowed on floor during time-out or intermission.

95% of games here in Connecticut are two-person games, and we were told that during a timeout, if the two officials needed to get together to discuss something, i.e., responsibility for last second shot, that the official responsible for inbounding the ball, or administering the foul shot, could leave the ball at that spot on the floor during the conference.

Did any of these three changes make it into the IAABO mechanics manual? I've got this in my written notes, and it's in the archive section of our local board's website, but I can't find any other citations.

[BayStateRef]

My memory matches your notes...which suggests that the IAABO interpreters were told about this change at a meeting or during a conference call. I was certain that I heard about this change at last year's interpretation meeting -- and I have used the mechanic in several games (including one just last week.)

But I checked the mechanics manual from last year and this year...and I cannot locate a reference that supports this mechanic.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

My memory matches your notes...which suggests that the IAABO interpreters were told about this change at a meeting or during a conference call. I was certain that I heard about this change at last year's interpretation meeting -- and I have used the mechanic in several games (including one just last week.)

But I checked the mechanics manual from last year and this year...and I cannot locate a reference that supports this mechanic.

Bay State and Billy:

Read my post from yesterday at 11:14pm.

MTD, Sr.

[BayStateRef]

Exactly...it is not in the IAABO mechanics manual, yet Billy has it in his notes and I definitely recall my interpreter saying the same thing: if you have to confer with your partner, put the ball on the floor.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

NFHS from the 2007-09 Basketball Officials Manual: Sections 2.4.3.C.3 and 3.4.3.C.3 both state that: "If the administering official needs to leave the throw-in spot, he/she may place the ball on the floor at the spot."

IAABO: For those of you that officiate in areas that use the IAABO Basketball Officials Manual: The 2008-09 Two- and Three-Person Manuals has no such provision. The IAABO Manual is very very similar to the NFHS Manual.

P.S. But I still stand by my humble opinion that it does not look good at any level and I would never do it and I would recommend to other officials not to do it.

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Read my post from yesterday at 11:14pm.

It looks like the NFHS mechanic was somehow communicated, and accepted, by IAABO interpreters in at least two states, Connecticut, and Massachusetts, yet was not included in the 2007-08, or 2008-09 IAABO Mechanics Manual.

Was was wrong with the good old NFHS mechanics? Why did IAABO ever get into the mechanics business? What's next. Their own IAABO Rulebook? Their own IAABO uniform? Oh, that's right. We did have our own IAABO uniform, back in the mid-1980's, gray jersey with blue collar, and blue pants. And then we finally came to our senses and went to the NFHS black and white jersey, with black pants.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr: Regarding your P.S., if you were the administering official after a time out, or an intermission, and you needed to have a short conference with your partner, would you bring the ball with you? Also, I'm curious, does your 2007-09 NFHS Basketball Officials Manual mention mechanics changes involving a not closely guarded signal, and/or allowing the referee to delegate a jump ball tosser? Thanks.