Ball on the floor

[dhodges007]

I have heard different sides of this issue and I was wondering what your thoughts were. Loose ball and both individuals dive on the floor or ball in the air and both individuals "fly" to get it. In both instances there was a lot of contact...call or no call?

Thanks...

[Mark Dexter]

As long as neither player gains an advantage or is put at a disadvantage, there is no call. See 4-27-2 ([contact in going for a loose ball] should not be considered, even though the contact may be severe)

[BigDave]

Some things to look for in this situation:

-- does one player push the other to get to the ball?
-- is one player holding/grabbing the other?
-- is one player using their legs/arms to get better position for the ball?

In most cases, you'll have a jump ball situation, but there is potential for a foul.

[BktBallRef]

Also,

-- If the players are airborne, does one player get to the ball before the other.

-- On the players are on the floor, does one player dive or jump on top of the other.

Many times, you'll see a player dive on top of a player in an effort to tie the ball up. That's a foul.

[johnSandlin]

dhodge007,

I think in the two situations you were refering to about a "loose ball"... I personally would probably be inclined to make a no call on the play. The only way I would make a call would is if the contact gave anybody a clear advantage to the ball.

[Brian Watson]

Not that the coaches beleive us, but it is in the rule book for a reason. Simultaneous contact should be considered incidental. No Call, move on.

[dhodges007]

That was my impression, but I don't know how many times I have heard that it should be a foul. I didn't think it was unless advantage/disadvantage came into play. Thanks again for all of your help. This is such a great teaching tool.

[AK ref SE]

Whenever we have contact, 100% of the time 50% of the people think we should have called a foul.
I think that we need to look advantage /disadvantage, sometimes the contact will be severe. It is like a screen(Screens are meant to be hit) I have seen people layed out on the floor. Should this be a foul?

AK ref SE

[BktBallRef]

Not if it's a legal screen. But too many illegal screens are missed because many officials don't officiate off the ball.

But I think this is a slightly different issue. Many officials, coaches, players and fans are of the mindset that the ball is loose and a player can do anything to get to it.

But that's only in football.

[AK ref SE]

BktBallRef-
I do not understand what you mean by if it is a legal screen.

If a team sets a screen, the intent is to stop the progress of an opposing player (in a direct path). If a player turns into a screen, and hits the screen(sometimes with some major contact).
1. The screen was legal
2. If the opposing player was knock on his can(without being pushed) I do not see where this is a foul.

I agree that a loose ball does not give a player free reign to do whatever it takes to get to the ball

AK ref SE

[BktBallRef]

You completed your post above with, "Should this be a foul?".

I simply answered the question by saying, "Not if it's a legal screen".

If the screen is legal, then the play you described is not a foul. Understand?

[C rabby]

On another note regarding a held ball; does it matter if either player is moving his feet? For example, could that be considered travelling?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by C rabby
On another note regarding a held ball; does it matter if either player is moving his feet? For example, could that be considered travelling?

If the players are tussling for the ball but only 1
has possesion and he moves his feet then it's a travel.
If the ball is in possesion of both players and
you decide it's a held ball then you can't have a travel.
In terms of game management it might be best to say that
if 4 hands are on the ball and one of the players travels
before you blow for the held ball then go with the held
ball, not the travel.

[Brian Watson]

no.

[chels]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Not if it's a legal screen. But too many illegal screens are missed because many officials don't officiate off the ball.

But I think this is a slightly different issue. Many officials, coaches, players and fans are of the mindset that the ball is loose and a player can do anything to get to it.

But that's only in football.

Halleluiah!!!!!!
I am glad to read(hear) another official say that many officials dont officiate off the ball! In my pregame I politely touch on calling out of your area into your partners area by saying,"we shouldnt have a double whistle, but if we do..it should be taken by whoever the play is coming at". I have had officials call from the lead postition to the opposite corner in front of me. How pissed off do you think I was. There are usually two ways the coach nearest handles it. Didn't you see that? or What is he/she doing calling that from up there.