Questionable T?

[Bad Zebra]

What am I missing here? I can't understand the debate about warnings or talking to the coach or captains. If you heard the word "a$$" come out of her mouth...WHACK! T will be served®. It's profanity and the rule couldn't be clearer. It doesn't matter what the context was or what garbled words followed. Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

Any tolerance only teaches the player that he or she can get away next time with a warning too.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

What am I missing here? I can't understand the debate about warnings or talking to the coach or captains. If you heard the word "a$$" come out of her mouth...WHACK! T will be served. It's profanity and the rule couldn't be clearer. It doesn't matter what the context was or what garbled words followed. Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

Any tolerance only teaches the player that he or she can get away next time with a warning too.

I concur with the general sentiment of your post, but I have to disagree with your specific statement that this word is profanity.


White #10 to her nearby teammate: "Oh, I think I just bruised my a$$ taking that charge."

White #10 to a nearby official: "I hate it when my dad yells from the stands. He makes such an a$$ of himself that it's embarrassing."

Do you have a T in both of these situations?

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Really? I don't agree.

White #10 to her nearby teammate: "Oh, I think I just bruised my a$$ taking that charge."

White #10 to a nearby official: "I hate it when my dad yells from the stands. He makes such an a$$ of himself that it's embarrassing."

Do you have a T in both of these situations?

In the first case maybe not. In the second, why would a player express her feelings using a cuss word to an official? Doesn't seem likely.

In neither of those examples did the conversation take place within the scope of the game. I think the original sitch did and seemed like an attempt at taunting on top of using profanity.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

In the first case maybe not. In the second, why would a player express her feelings using a cuss word to an official? Doesn't seem likely.

In neither of those examples did the conversation take place within the scope of the game. I think the original sitch did and seemed like an attempt at taunting on top of using profanity.

And that is why a T is appropriate in the given situation.

You know that a player addressed an opponent in an unsporting manner. The use of certain words is indicative of that, but not in and of itself the offense.

I would counsel you to refrain from putting your individual opinion of what words are appropriate and which are not into your decisions. There are clearly some that are obvious, but there are far more that are not. When it comes to judging language, it is better to operate within widely accepted parameters.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

...I would counsel you to refrain from putting your individual opinion of what words are appropriate and which are not into your decisions. There are clearly some that are obvious, but there are far more that are not. When it comes to judging language, it is better to operate within widely accepted parameters.

I disagree. Widely accepted by whom? Society? Coaches? Administrators? Other officials? Further...our individual opinions are exactly why we get paid to do what we do.

"Widely Accepted" parameters sounds an awful like concensus to me. Concensus has no place in officiating a basketball game.

Just my humble opinion.

[JRutledge]

I have come to the conclusion that all Ts are questionable to someone. Even when there is a clear violation of the rules, someone that was not in that situation is going to have something to say. The best thing any official can do is try to see if the people they work for has a problem with them and did the people you work with think something could have been done to prevent them. Otherwise, someone is always going to have something to say. I have given 3 Ts this year (more than some years already) and someone feels they did nothing wrong. You are never going to win with everyone, just do what you feel is best and hope the people you work for accept your decisions. Sometimes that is based on your reputation or stature as an official.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

I disagree. Widely accepted by whom? Society? Coaches? Administrators? Other officials? Further...our individual opinions are exactly why we get paid to do what we do.

"Widely Accepted" parameters sounds an awful like concensus to me. Concensus has no place in officiating a basketball game.

Just my humble opinion.

Ok, then best of luck doing it your way. I sincerely hope that it brings you success. I only offered my advice. You certainly don't have to take it.

There definitely are things that I do which are counter to the widespread practice of others.

Inappropriate language is a difficult concept to officiate. I happen to like the advice presented by the US Soccer Federation.
OT - Player sets unwanted record with three-second dismissal

It has the benefit of not requiring me to make decisions about individual words or phrases. For people like yourself who seem to take a different approach, I always wonder what makes the list and what doesn't?

T or not? (? to anyone, not just BZ)
1. d@mn
2. Jesus Christ
3. son of gun
4. dang
5. suck
6. crap
7. OMG

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

For people like yourself who seem to take a different approach, I always wonder what makes the list and what doesn't?

T or not? (? to anyone, not just BZ)
1. d@mn
2. Jesus Christ
3. son of gun
4. dang
5. suck
6. crap
7. OMG

In TN in the State rules meetings for Coaches & Referees, #5 was announced as unsporting language to be punished. So at least for that one I will follow the State's instruction.

[Jburt]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

T or not? (? to anyone, not just BZ)
1. d@mn
2. Jesus Christ
3. son of gun
4. dang
5. suck
6. crap
7. OMG

Depending on the context, I would say all could be T'able offenses. Same as "Are you kidding me?"

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

T or not? (? to anyone, not just BZ)
1. d@mn
2. Jesus Christ
3. son of gun
4. dang
5. suck
6. crap
7. OMG

What about "ALLAH!!!" or JOBU!!!" or my personal favorite for those practicing pastafarianism "Flying Spaghetti Monster!!!" ?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

T or not? (? to anyone, not just BZ)
1. d@mn
2. Jesus Christ
3. son of gun
4. dang
5. suck
6. crap
7. OMG

I've T'd 1,2,5,6,7. I've also ignored all of them at given times.

Further, I've T'd "sh!t," and ignored "Bull sh1t" once.

Of course, the BS reference was a coach standing next to me asking, "Isn't it a T if he says Bull sh!t like that?" I knew the hot head player he was talking about, but I hadn't heard the expletive.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1. d@mn
2. Jesus Christ
3. son of gun
4. dang
5. suck
6. crap
7. OMG

I didn't realize that George Carlin was an official?

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

wonder what makes the list and what doesn't?

T or not? (? to anyone, not just BZ)
1. d@mn
2. Jesus Christ
3. son of gun
4. dang
5. suck
6. crap
7. OMG

#2- Yes
The rest, in my book no.

Thanks for all the advice. I thought in my 9th year, I had a handle on it, I am still learning.

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

What am I missing here? I can't understand the debate about warnings or talking to the coach or captains. If you heard the word "a$$" come out of her mouth...WHACK! T will be served®. It's profanity and the rule couldn't be clearer. It doesn't matter what the context was or what garbled words followed. Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

Any tolerance only teaches the player that he or she can get away next time with a warning too.

I agree, T...but be careful with the phrase "profanity." An English teacher/Varsity Coach taught me the difference between vulgarity and profanity...there is a difference, and I had it wrong.....