talking coaches

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I could go with that, and I've used it, but I wouldn't stop the game and make a show out of embarrassing the coach.

It's not that I want to embarass the coach, but you almost really do have to stop the game when the coach is exhibiting the behavior you want stopped. Otherwise you might get a situation where 3 or 4 minutes run off the clock before the next stoppage in play, and by then you'd look like a fool trying to bring up something that happened a while ago. Kind of like when a coach in the 2nd half brings up a call you made back at the start of the game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Whatever you say, the last part of your phrase (quoted above) in inappropriate.

I usually start with "we'll watch for it."

Then, I do so. If I see something that's "close" but doesn't warrant a call, I'll tell the coach that next time down (e.g., "she moves out" or "he's allowed to try for a goal.")

If the coach then continues, I go to "coach, we've heard you and we're looking for it. That's enough."

Continued comments get a formal warning and then a whack.

I disagree a little bit. I think the "Sit Down" part was worse than to say, "Coach your team."

I think you can make comments to coaches (and should) that they are there to coach the game and not help you or officiate the game. A better phrase might be, "At some point you need to start coaching and let us do our job." And saying to all coaches, "I will watch for it" does not work. The standard, "I will look for it" does not always work anymore. Coaches then usually get more of a smart a$$ when you give them that kind of response.

Honestly I have learned you can say a lot of different things if you know how to deliver the comments or if you have the right body language.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

It's not that I want to embarass the coach, but you almost really do have to stop the game when the coach is exhibiting the behavior you want stopped. Otherwise you might get a situation where 3 or 4 minutes run off the clock before the next stoppage in play, and by then you'd look like a fool trying to bring up something that happened a while ago. Kind of like when a coach in the 2nd half brings up a call you made back at the start of the game.

If three or four minutes go by and he hasn't continued, then you might not need to address it.

However, if you need to stop the game, you can do it without showing up the coach. Use an IW right in front of his bench, that gives you a quick moment to have a quiet word with him.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Not sure if any of those 61 post here.

Give stop sign when you've had enough, let your partner & anybody within earshot know that coach has been warned. If he continues, whack him & have your partner sit him down. If coach still doesnt get it, send him to the showers early. Coaches/players are like children, they will do what you allow them to do & oh yeah, some like to see how far they can go.

Well I can tell you that those "61" you refer to absolutely DO NOT give the stop sign. The stop sign induces conflict it does not resolve conflict. We are there to diffuse the conflict and the quicker that we all learn that we don't try to win or that we don't try to "zing" the coach with a one liner and instead act professionally then we all win and there will never be any calls to our supervisors for things we said.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

It's not that I want to embarass the coach, but you almost really do have to stop the game when the coach is exhibiting the behavior you want stopped. Otherwise you might get a situation where 3 or 4 minutes run off the clock before the next stoppage in play, and by then you'd look like a fool trying to bring up something that happened a while ago. Kind of like when a coach in the 2nd half brings up a call you made back at the start of the game.

You or one of your partners should be close enough to the coach during a live ball to say, "That's enough!" or "We've heard enough tonight, coach" or "We aren't going to have you officiating from your bench all night, coach" during a live ball.

I don't advocate having extended conversations during live ball action with a coach, but I've learned in a short period of time that a brief comment is helpful, timely, and also doesn't interrupt the game...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

Well I can tell you that those "61" you refer to absolutely DO NOT give the stop sign. The stop sign induces conflict it does not resolve conflict. We are there to diffuse the conflict and the quicker that we all learn that we don't try to win or that we don't try to "zing" the coach with a one liner and instead act professionally then we all win and there will never be any calls to our supervisors for things we said.

I agree with this whole heartedly.

Originally Posted by btaylor64

Well I can tell you that those "61" you refer to absolutely DO NOT give the stop sign. The stop sign induces conflict it does not resolve conflict. We are there to diffuse the conflict and the quicker that we all learn that we don't try to win or that we don't try to "zing" the coach with a one liner and instead act professionally then we all win and there will never be any calls to our supervisors for things we said.

I hear exactly what you're saying, but how we use the stop sign has a lot to do with escalating or difusing situations. I would never put it directly in a coaches face, nor fully extended. More calm & collective, about chest high & closer to my body than theirs.

That being said, after 3 weeks of varsity games I haven't had to use it at all. Don't know if it's my presence or their familiarity, but coaches aren't questioning me much so far.
Oh wait a minute, it's non-conference time

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

I hear exactly what you're saying, but how we use the stop sign has a lot to do with escalating or difusing situations. I would never put it directly in a coaches face, nor fully extended. More calm & collective, about chest high & closer to my body than theirs.

That being said, after 3 weeks of varsity games I haven't had to use it at all. Don't know if it's my presence or their familiarity, but coaches aren't questioning me much so far.
Oh wait a minute, it's non-conference time

My partners and I were talking the other night about this. Coaches this year have been well behaved and focussed on coaching. I've only had to answer a few questions so far, and no coach has even come close to getting out of hand.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

You or one of your partners should be close enough to the coach during a live ball to say, "That's enough!" or "We've heard enough tonight, coach" or "We aren't going to have you officiating from your bench all night, coach" during a live ball.

I don't advocate having extended conversations during live ball action with a coach, but I've learned in a short period of time that a brief comment is helpful, timely, and also doesn't interrupt the game...

To each their own I guess. I was taught that it's better to do it this way, again, not to embarass the coach or anything, but to make your point and leave no doubt that if the coach chooses to continue with this behavior, then it should be no surprise when he gets T'd. Assignors have told us that since most high school games are videotaped, it's also good backup for when the coach or AD complains to them...it catches things that an inaudible comment as you're running down the court don't show.

Coach: "blahblahblah - he T'd me up for no reason at all! I don't want to see him in my gym anymore!"
Assignor: "Really coach? Because on the video I requested from your AD, I see him giving you a warning late in the first quarter. And I really don't see anything he did that was unjustified. Coach? Hello coach...are you still there?"
*click*

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

To each their own I guess. I was taught that it's better to do it this way, again, not to embarass the coach or anything, but to make your point and leave no doubt that if the coach chooses to continue with this behavior, then it should be no surprise when he gets T'd. Assignors have told us that since most high school games are videotaped, it's also good backup for when the coach or AD complains to them...it catches things that an inaudible comment as you're running down the court don't show.

Coach: "blahblahblah - he T'd me up for no reason at all! I don't want to see him in my gym anymore!"
Assignor: "Really coach? Because on the video I requested from your AD, I see him giving you a warning late in the first quarter. And I really don't see anything he did that was unjustified. Coach? Hello coach...are you still there?"
*click*

I guess around here, the assigners trust our judgment on this and will back us up. We don't have to embarrass a coach (intentionally or not) so there's a video taped backup of our warning.

Assigner: "Coach says he got T'd up for no reason."
Me: "Interesting, he accused me of cheating. I call that a reason."
Assigner: "works for me."

Every T around here comes with a report anyway.

Originally Posted by ma_ref

Assignors have told us that since most high school games are videotaped, it's also good backup for when the coach or AD complains to them...it catches things that an inaudible comment as you're running down the court don't show.*

Tape doesn't lie... not that I would embarass the coach. I wouldn't stop play to warn coach either, but validation on tape is not a bad thing.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

Assignors have told us that since most high school games are videotaped, it's also good backup for when the coach or AD complains to them...it catches things that an inaudible comment as you're running down the court don't show.

I guess I don't have this worry. My assignors trust that I'm telling them the truth and have complete faith that I'm only whacking a coach when necessary. They also don't get very bent out of shape on technicals period...they're just another call, no reason to get all fired up.

That said, I definitely agree that having video-taped evidence is nice - but there are many times a coach can say something quite quietly, that maybe only I can hear, that's still going to earn him a T. That's never going to show up on film, so I'm not making a case in any instance of stopping a game to warn a coach...

Edited to add - if something is going on that can only be "warned for" by stopping the game, it's enough that I'm stopping the game for a T w/o a warning...

Originally Posted by jdw3018

That said, I definitely agree that having video-taped evidence is nice - but there are many times a coach can say something quite quietly, that maybe only I can hear, that's still going to earn him a T. That's never going to show up on film, so I'm not making a case in any instance of stopping a game to warn a coach...

Edited to add - if something is going on that can only be "warned for" by stopping the game, it's enough that I'm stopping the game for a T w/o a warning...

Good stuff! I guess above all, it boils down to earning the trust of our bosses. Tape won't pick up a quick "f you" as you run by the coach, but we still want/need the boss to back us.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Good stuff! I guess above all, it boils down to earning the trust of our bosses. Tape won't pick up a quick "f you" as you run by the coach, but we still want/need the boss to back us.

And don't get me wrong - I'm fortunate to be in a place where the guys I work for pretty much back us up no problem. Not everyone is that fortunate, and in those areas you may have to be more "careful" or "tape-aware" when whacking.

[ma_ref]

I should've been more clear in my post. The videotape doesn't justify our actions to our assignors. 99.9% of them stand by us no problem. Video just makes it easier for them to defend us against coaches and/or AD's with proof in hand. Around here, assignors work for the leagues they assign and are hired by the collective ADs within each league. We generally don't have to answer to our assignors, but they certainly have to answer to their bosses (the AD's).