Coaches/Captains sell out by the R

[icallfouls]

Why didn't you take care of the hair bands yourself? It is just as much your job as the R's. When the warm ups are going on just tell the players that are in violation that they will have to remove them in order to play. TAKE CARE OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE DIRECT CONTROL OVER! The R is not the sole member of the fashion gustopo.

Don't be to concerned with your partner selling you out, he gave you an opportunity to step up and you did it even when you weren't really expecting it. He did it and inadvertantly made himself look stupid for not addressing it. You should've ended the informational meeting with, "the players that have nonconforming bands will not be allowed to play until they conform." That now takes it out of R's hands and he has no room to waiver because both coaches have been informed, and at worst, one of them will force the issue.

Since it is a POE, and partner said he wasn't going to enforce it, you can only mention it to the assignor and see how he wants to handle it.

[Kelvin green]

I agree... tell the girl to cover the exposed hinges...(only thing that has to be done by rule), I'll bet the team has an oversleeve...

That being said... I learned this in football I had never though about....

If the referee will not enforce a liability potential safety rule, pull the R aside and tell him that you want a signed statement that states he has made a rule decision on not enforcing a saftey rule, and that he assumes all liability from the actions resulting from his rule interpretation, and that he understands you advised him to not allow the safety issue and against the advice, he absolves you of all liability.

May not stand up in court but he'll get the point....

I had a situation in football where the note supposed to be signed by a MD or DO was signed by a PA. Told the referee and he made all sorts of justifications on why a PA is just as qualified as a MD...
1) I will not work with the guy again and 2) I will not work with him again and 3) i wont subject myself to that liability without covering my butt somehow and take all reasonable steps

[26 Year Gap]

If the team YOU are responsible for has the pre-wrap issue, you go to the coach of that team and address it BEFORE the coaches & captains meeting. Same thing with the brace. Same thing with illegal undershirts. The coach will take care of it.

Contacting your assignor is a good idea as well. Chances are that you are not the only guy in the asociation with tire tread marks on your back.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

The R is not the sole member of the fashion gestapo.

We don't have that much power. We're only the fashion police.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

I believe no one can be harder on yourself then yourself about this so its all good.

Having said that I'm in the U2's spot ALOT.

Rant ON ::::

Why is there so much concern about enforcing the rules, its like I'm working for the UN, everybody's concerned about everything except the rules. I am just starting my Varsity part of this whole deal and the excuses from the other officials for not taking care of pregame dunks, wrong numbers in the books, coaches behaving badly, etc is just beyond appalling. And this coming from someone who spent lots of time in mosh pits.

If i have a partner call and apologize i would fall on the floor in convulsions and work the rest of the year for free, maybe.

Takes a big man to admit when you were wrong and apologize-my hat is off to you.

There are a lot of officials who don't want to start a game with technical fouls or generally don't want to "get their hands dirty." As you keep officiating, you may find these are the same officials who conveniently don't hear unsporting comments, don't see unsporting acts and want to avoid conflict that should be taken care of.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by j2u4now

Help me out here. I am working a Varsity girls game. R is a veteran official. During warm ups both teams have 4 different colored hair wraps.( This is a POE for our Association this year. We were informed to enforce this,period) So I mentioned to the R that I have 11 players, one has an illegal knee brace, and we need to address the hair wrap issue.
He states " the knee brace is hard plastic with metal, what's wrong with that? They're all made like that? And we'll give them a warning for the hair wrap, I'm not gonna enforce it tonite.
My response " the knee brace is illegal and it's the 7th game of the season for these teams, so we get to be selective on what we enforce with illegal uniforms?"
We got to coaches captain meeting and the R does his "speel" he then says "Coaches I know the ladies are not properly equipted tonite, J please explain the headband/uniform rule". Being caught off guard, I explained " dominant uniform color,black,white, or tan".
He then says" Coaches now that you know this, this is going to upset J, but consider this a warning for tonite, you need to be in proper uniform by next game".
So as we leave the meeting I ask" why did you bring it up if you're not going to enforce it?"
His comment " so they know for next time".
I feel the veteran sold me out to the coaches and put me on the spot. Give me feedback? I'm pretty ticked about it still.

j2u4now:

I want to start with your meeting with the coaches. Your partner is a "Grade A Schmuck" and at halftime I would have kicked his tuchus around the dressing room of the seven minutes we were in there. As someone who has spent many years on constuctions sites to tell you that I have a lot of other things that I could call him but some of them are including in George Carlin's Seven Words You Can't Say On The Radio and all of them cannot be used in polite society. The one thing I will say is that he is not a horse's rear end because that would be insuting to the two horses that my wife and I have owned.

Regarding the hair wraps, I think that most of us old geezers will agree with me that we really are getting tired of being fashion police. I will be honest with you, Mark, Jr. and I had a Jr. H.S. assignment earlier this month where the girls of one team wore different colored wrist bands and none of the colors were white, black, or the dominant color of the jersey and some wore regular head bands while some wore different colored pre-wrap. This was a school that barely had enough girls in the district to field both 7th and 8th grade teams. Did we care? No. BUT, when I officiate a game at the freshmen level and above I start to take the rules seriously, even though I dislike with great instensity being a fashion policeman.

Staying with the hair wrap subject (as well as wrist bands, illegal t-shirts, jewelry, etc.), the instant I see player(s) on the team for which I am resposible watching during warm-ups, I go to him/them and inform him/them of the problem and tell him/them that I cannot make him/them rectify the problem but that he/they cannot play unless the problem has been rectified.

Regarding the knee brace. Why was it illegal? I am hard pressed to remember (basically because it was probably during the peach basket era of basketball and I am a senile old geezer according to my sons and BillyMar, ) the last time I saw a player with an knee brace that did not meet the safety requirements of the rules. BUT safety rules can NEVER be ignored. When safety rules are ignored the entire officiating crew (even if you can prove that you told the R and he said he was not going to enforce the rule) is considered negligent if someone gets hurt because the rule was ignored.

What does the last sentence of the previous paragraph mean? You have to decide if you if you are going to force the issue with your partner. That means are you are willing to walk off the court and not officiate the game because he is refusing to enforce a safety rule, especially if you are a less experienced official working with a so-called veteran official. I know that is a difficult decision to make because I threatened the center official in a boys' H.S. soccer game with that exact situation if he did not enforce the NFHS jewelry rule. As a soccer official I was the least experienced official on the crew, but I had officiated H.S. basketball for more years than my two partners had been officiating soccer together. I told him that I would walk off the field and inform the home school AD (it was the home team players that were wearing the jewelry); I would then go home and immediately send an email to OhioHSAA informing the of the situation. That got his attention immediately and he did the correct thing. BUT, no one has ever accused me of being a meek and mild person.

MTD, Sr.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We don't have that much power. We're only the fashion police.

You said that with muy mucho gusto!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by j2u4now

Help me out here. I am working a Varsity girls game. R is a veteran official. During warm ups both teams have 4 different colored hair wraps.( This is a POE for our Association this year. We were informed to enforce this,period) So I mentioned to the R that I have 11 players, one has an illegal knee brace, and we need to address the hair wrap issue.
He states " the knee brace is hard plastic with metal, what's wrong with that? They're all made like that? And we'll give them a warning for the hair wrap, I'm not gonna enforce it tonite.
My response " the knee brace is illegal and it's the 7th game of the season for these teams, so we get to be selective on what we enforce with illegal uniforms?"
We got to coaches captain meeting and the R does his "speel" he then says "Coaches I know the ladies are not properly equipted tonite, J please explain the headband/uniform rule". Being caught off guard, I explained " dominant uniform color,black,white, or tan".
He then says" Coaches now that you know this, this is going to upset J, but consider this a warning for tonite, you need to be in proper uniform by next game".
So as we leave the meeting I ask" why did you bring it up if you're not going to enforce it?"
His comment " so they know for next time".
I feel the veteran sold me out to the coaches and put me on the spot. Give me feedback? I'm pretty ticked about it still.

"Coaches, This is going to upset R, but because he is taking that position and knowingly not going to enforce the rules, I can't put myself in jeopardy by working this contest. Have a nice game." Exit, pursued by a bear.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Why didn't you take care of the hair bands yourself? It is just as much your job as the R's. When the warm ups are going on just tell the players that are in violation that they will have to remove them in order to play. TAKE CARE OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE DIRECT CONTROL OVER! The R is not the sole member of the fashion gustopo.

Don't be to concerned with your partner selling you out, he gave you an opportunity to step up and you did it even when you weren't really expecting it. He did it and inadvertantly made himself look stupid for not addressing it. You should've ended the informational meeting with, "the players that have nonconforming bands will not be allowed to play until they conform." That now takes it out of R's hands and he has no room to waiver because both coaches have been informed, and at worst, one of them will force the issue.

Since it is a POE, and partner said he wasn't going to enforce it, you can only mention it to the assignor and see how he wants to handle it.

Agreed.

Peace

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

"Coaches, This is going to upset R, but because he is taking that position and knowingly not going to enforce the rules, I can't put myself in jeopardy by working this contest. Have a nice game." Exit, pursued by a bear.

I was going to say as a comeback to his pregame... " I know this will upset Mr R but I'm going enforce the all the rules since I don't which ones he wants to go ala carte on."

[JRutledge]

I would not stoop to the level of this official. You should still keep your professionalism. Work the game and move on. And if it bothers you that much, talk to the assignor. You are assigned the game because someone felt you were going to work the game, not because you have to agree with everything a partner is going to do.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

It's not a matter of stooping to his level. It's a matter of protecting myself. For liability reasons I would never work a contest in which a player was knowingly allowed to wear illegal equipment.

[JRutledge]

I doubt the color of the head band is a liability concern.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

The illegal knee brace is.

[JRutledge]

And that prevents you from telling the player to remove the knee brace? I must have missed the football like rules that only requires one official to judge the legality of player equipment.

Peace