The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 20, 2008, 08:55pm
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by RANCHMAN View Post
I officiated a tournament Girls Varsity game in North Zulch, Texas. It involved a game between North Zulch, and a team they should have easily defeated, (since they obviously wanted to advance in their own tournament). I think the root of the problem that I encountered was the result of a girl’s varsity game that I officiated in North Zulch last year. After North Zulch lost a close game, the female coach approached me and began explaining how my partner and I stole the game from them, and continued her tantrum with her arms flinging, etc. In the tournament game I am referring to today, everything seemed to be fine in the first half because North Zulch girls had a lead. From my standpoint the head coach only questioned three violations I called on a young lady on her team. In each case I yelled “get out of the lane” several times and she would just not move, so I had no choice but to call three second violations. In the third quarter after the opposing team took the lead, the coach for North Zulch began showing a growing antagonism toward me. She at one point yelled across court why I called a palming violation on one of her girls when her hand was not under the ball. I told her that the ball did not have to placed on the bottom of the ball to have a violation in this case. My co-official, and I had called several traveling, double dribbles, and palming violations on this particular young lady. Early in the fourth quarter with the opponent leading by about twelve points, I was handing the ball to a player for a throw in when the coach yelled something, so I looked over at her, and she yelled back very loudly “I AM NOT TALKING TO YOU”! During the next time out I asked my co-official to change sides with me because I had spent the majority of the third quarter, and part of the fourth quarter along the bleachers that the North Zulch fans were occupying, and explained to him that the fans were making some really nasty remarks to me (I heard a fan call me a dumb b*****d, and several other names that of course upset me). He moved over for me, then with about 1:20 left in the game, and North Zulch down by ten points I handed the ball to an opposing player for a throw in, and started my count. At that time I noticed a North Zulch player holding a hand full of jersey, so I called a holding violation. The North Zulch coach yelled very loudly across the court where everyone could hear her “YOU WILL NEVER OFFICATE HERE AGAIN”! (she said it twice). After the game I walked to the refs changing room, and noticed two officials that I have a tremendous amount of respect for standing outside the dressing room door, so I said my hellos. I then turned toward the front of the gym to leave when the North Zulch coach grabbed the left arm of my jacket and told me to follow her because she wanted to talk to me. When I turned to follow her one of the officials tugged my other arm and told me not to do that. At that point in a very nasty voice she told me that I would NEVER officiate in North Zulch again, did I understand! I then lost my composure, and I think I said something really unprofessional like,( I would not lower myself to officiate a bunch of white trash in this town again). The referee then pulled my arm, so that I was moving toward the front door of the gym. She followed but I really cannot remember exactly what she, and I said, but after the few steps it took to reach the front of the gym, the coach’s son punched me I think in the right top of my shoulder or neck, but I cannot remember. This was not a kid; he looked to be in his late twenty’s. At that time I tried my best to get to him for that cheap shot, but both officials grabbed me and prevented me from getting to him. I struggled to reach him, but I finally came to my senses and gave up. By this time I was outside, and the female coach was threatening to call the police etc. so one of the officials walked me to my car, and said if I needed to contact he or the other official, they would be happy to give their input the way they viewed the situation. I just feel this coach could have just contacted the chapter if she did not like my officiating instead of handling the situation the way she did. She knew that nothing positive was going to happen by confronting me, other than an unpleasant situation. Even though my co-official called a large number of violations against North Zulch, the coach nor fans really blamed him because he resides in that general community, and it seemed like allot of people knew him at that game. I called this game the way I saw it, and really if North Zulch had scored on just a fifth of the open shots they had, the game would have been a blow out. With recent events at this town, i.e., a brawl between players, and fans last year during in a game with a team in the general vicinity, which was caused by racial slurs aimed at the black players on the opposing team, and a statement by my co-official about a biracial referee in our association that was called a n…….over and over again, and how sick he felt about it, I wonder why I am officiating. This is my third year, and I have been told that I have a good chance of getting playoff games this year. I stay in excellent shape, read every article I can find regarding rules, and mechanics, because I want to be as competent as possible, because I know the kids, fans, and coaches expect it. I do not officiate for the money; it’s about the love of the game, and watching the kids play. I have turned in a complaint to the Texas Association of Sports Officials; however I have allot of soul searching to do because I have noticed that fans are getting more abusive. Before I forget I wanted to mention how thankful I am for all of the officials that contribute to this forum. I have received a wealth of knowledge, so keep up the good work, and I will continue to visit the web site even if I decide to move on.
I wish you all a very Blessed and Safe Holiday!

Sincerely,
Mark
Whack.

Stop the game and get game management escort this person outta there.

Flagrant Whack.

I'd remove my arm immediately and say "Have a nice night."

Press charges.

I stopped reading when I read the word 'racial' and the n word. Don't go back there. Encourage others not to go too. Maybe they'll get the idea.
__________________
Pope Francis
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 20, 2008, 11:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lakewood, Ohio
Posts: 718
Quote:
I stopped reading when I read the word 'racial' and the n word. Don't go back there. Encourage others not to go too. Maybe they'll get the idea.
I disagree. I am not a fan of political correctness, but this is just wrong. The Texas High School Athletic Association (not the officials Association) needs to know the situation there so that sanctions can be made to correct an absolutely heinous situation. TASO cannot be expected to orchestrate a boycott. Thats just fantasy. Specific and serious action needs to be taken against that school community. If the bylaws of the THSAA is anything like the OHSAA here in Ohio, they are the only ones with the muscle to affect change there.

Forget the mistakes made by a young and inexperienced official, they do not mitigate the culpability of the athletic administration of an entire school that allows this type of behavior. The school should be suspended from all interscholastic activity until a proactive and corrective action is instituted. I am truly disturbed to read this.
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 20, 2008, 11:29pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignats75 View Post
Forget the mistakes made by a young and inexperienced official, they do not mitigate the culpability of the athletic administration of an entire school that allows this type of behavior.
No one here said the crew in any way mitigated the coach's culpability here.

That said, she put the crew in their place, and they let her. She walked all over them, and by not doing anything early, she was essentially encouraged to escalate her behavior. She acted exactly like you'd expect a toddler to act when she throws a tantrum and the parents simply acquiesce.

That said, I have no idea how the organizational structure works in Texas, but I'd be filing complaints and charges and reports with everyone.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 20, 2008, 11:44pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lakewood, Ohio
Posts: 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
No one here said the crew in any way mitigated the coach's culpability here.

That said, she put the crew in their place, and they let her. She walked all over them, and by not doing anything early, she was essentially encouraged to escalate her behavior. She acted exactly like you'd expect a toddler to act when she throws a tantrum and the parents simply acquiesce.

That said, I have no idea how the organizational structure works in Texas, but I'd be filing complaints and charges and reports with everyone.
I'm not disputing that at all. Many of the problems at the game as described in the OP were created by the officials mishandling the situation. I am just appalled at the disfuntional situation at that school district that trancends any culpability by the officials.
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 02:03am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In a little pink house
Posts: 5,289
Ranchman,

Wow. What a nightmare.

I sincerely want to offer my support. We've all had a really bad game or three and questioned whether we want to continue officiating. I certainly have. I know all too well the emotional roller coaster you're on right now.

Though it doesn't seem like it today, this experience was a gift from the officiating gods. It highlighted some very glaring weaknesses that have gone unaddressed during your meteoric rise. Whether this experience ultimately becomes a stumbling block or a stepping stone to your career depends entirely upon your answer to one straightforward question: What will you do about these weaknesses?

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth. Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if nothing had happened." -- Winston Churchill
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 02:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: the bluegrass state
Posts: 1
Long time reader, first time posting. I share this as a police officer of ten years that has been fortunate to officiate as well for six years.

There is an all too common set of circumstances in the posts that I have been reading and news articles pertaining to attacks (verbal and physical) on officials. I give this small tidbit of "officiating tactically" advice that I try to use each game.

As officials, we do a great job of officiating the game as we see it. We anticipate (within reason) the action on the court and with increasing experience, we can normally "expect" how the action will go. However, after the final whistle we digress into lemmings that often do not show the level headed calm that we show during four quarters of basketball. While assaults on the court before and during a game are thankfully a rare occurrence, assaults after the game are unfortunately becoming more and more common. That being said, here are a couple of things to think about that I try to remember after I have tucked my whistle in my shirt and headed towards the showers.

*Hustle. Try as hard as they might, a coach, fan, player, or parent can not provide a valid reason why there should ever be a discussion with an official after a game. So why even allow that individual to approach you. You hustle during the game, hustle after it as well. Get into whatever broom closet the school gives you and get out of sight. In the cases that I have unfortunately investigated in a law enforcement role, the common factor is emotion. After a cooling off period, even a screaming parent will lose their steam. So will we. Besides, can you think of a way to make an angry person look like a bigger moron than to allow them to stand and yell at a closed door?

*Patience. Short of a loved one going into labor, I really can't think of a reason why anyone needs to set a NASCAR record for changing and getting out of the building. For any number of reasons, take the time after the game to let the crowd and any would be "top story" candidates to thin and forget why they were even upset in the first place. Thankfully, fans have a very short attention span which is proved whenever you call something great their way (cheers) but then call it the exact same way 80 feet away (boos).

*Hindsight. If you know that the potential for bodily injury is there in any official vs angry fan WWE melee past incident, why commit the same mistakes and/or oversights others before you have made? If Bubba wants to "tune you up" for calling fouls on his his little prince, why even allow ourselves to be put into that situation?

And lastly -
*Position. We know that our heads have to be on a swivel the whole game but put on blinders as we run off the floor. If all else fails, do not turn your head on whatever aggressor you are faced with. Screaming banshees are inherently cowards and will jump at the first opportunity to "hit and run" we give them. If you can't get away, give yourself a chance and keep an eye on the problem child and or parent.

I apologize for the length but I am very much committed to making sure that no other fellow official is the lead story on the nightly news for getting attacked. In my time as a police officer I have had the opportunity to work in several rural counties where, simply by my profession, I was not liked. This was always compounded by the fact that the guy that just got out of the state police car is also officiating the most important game in the history of basketball (as we all know they always are). Ranchman made some admitted mistakes but I say that they are mistakes he (and us) will not soon forget. But the best thing to come out of this is the fact that with the exception of a little sting physically and to his pride, he went home in the same condition as when he arrived.

And in both of my professions, that is always a win and something that will never be sacrificed.

Cory.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 07:08am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Naples Florida
Posts: 130
This situation accentuates the problems that newer officials have in dealing with coaches.

When to talk...how much do you say....how much do you take before a t is given????

Since i am new(second year), I have found that my best games have been the ones I was assigned to work with a quality ref, one that has good skills in this area.

I had a game on Friday BJV, in which the winning coach was quite vocal and questions all calls. I have a loud voice. I called a push off on one of his guys and he yelled.. "what did you call?". I thought I was just talking but I said "He pushed him off??? and moved my arm.

Coach says " YOu don't have to yell at me" So, I walked over with a smile and said.. "sorry coach I'm not yelling, I just get excited and talk loud" Seemed to calm him down.

Later after he kept yelling "3 seconds", for about the 20th time. I said " Coach do you want me to just stand there and look for 3 seconds or do you want me to manage all of the game activities and fouls?"

What are your thoughts on this??
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 12:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vermont
Posts: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachbum View Post

I had a game on Friday BJV, in which the winning coach was quite vocal and questions all calls. I have a loud voice. I called a push off on one of his guys and he yelled.. "what did you call?". I thought I was just talking but I said "He pushed him off??? and moved my arm.

Coach says " YOu don't have to yell at me" So, I walked over with a smile and said.. "sorry coach I'm not yelling, I just get excited and talk loud" Seemed to calm him down.
I think here I might go up to him and say I had a foul and this is your warning, no more commenting on the officiating. I wouldn't apologize, he yelled first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beachbum View Post
Later after he kept yelling "3 seconds", for about the 20th time. I said " Coach do you want me to just stand there and look for 3 seconds or do you want me to manage all of the game activities and fouls?"

What are your thoughts on this??
If you warned him it is time for a T. Also, I believe when you talk to a coach short statements are the best.
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 08:15am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 100
I would have hit her with a T and then another for each yell across the court. Anytime someone begins their rant with the word "you", then I better like every word I hear out of their mouth. So she is gone. After the game...get off the court. A nod to the table....I dont care if anyone says good bye or not. And then the other thing is....you cant quote silence. Coach wants to yell down the hall at you...fine. Coach wants to yell at you on the court....fine. Dont respond. Because however right you are....a coach will say you are wrong. Its all perception. And, for the matter of you not working a particular school again...Oh well. There are hundreds of other games for you to officiate. If you dont go to Podunk HS in Podunk USA thats fine.

The only other thing is that whenever a partner or senior official takes your arm and wants you to back off...take the urging. He is seeing it through cleaner lenses than you are...and in the long run is trying to avoid ugliness down the road. Report the incident immediately and get ready for your next game.

And, while Im thinking of it...an assigner knows of a difficult previous situation and sends you back. I dont know about that one.
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 08:37am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,842
One good thing that comes out of this is you'll never have to ref at North Gulch again. I think everyone here has gone through situations similar, maybe not as amped up as yours, and learned from them, I know I have. If you can remain calm and take care of business, you will have done your job and in retrospect, all involved will look back and recognize your professionalism in handling the situation.

Officiating has helped me grow as a person. In confrontations of any nature, I have a quick tongue. I've disciplined myself through officiating and it has served me well. Just my two cents.
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 11:55am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Texas
Posts: 14
Good information

I apologize for not entering my post in a more easy to

read format. I was just rambling with emotion, and did

not pay attention to my presentation, so I agree it was

difficult to "keep my eyes from watering" also!

I think that it is an excellent idea to dress at the school,

and appreciate the advise. I just had no idea how

important this was because I never found that topic in

the rule book. I can understand this is not a subject that

is on the top of the agenda while getting advise from more

experienced officials, but maybe it should be.

Some small rural counties in Texas are very "tight knit",

therefore if an "outsider" were to file charges against one

of the "local folk", justice would never be served, so filing

charges is out of the question.

I was advised by my chapter to file a complaint with

TASO. The form to complete looks exactly the same as

the one provided by the UIL, so I have been under the

impression that these two organizations work togeather.

This community seems to be a throw back in history,

so if I offended any readers with the "racist attitude",

remarks that I gained knowledge of, from individuals who

had first hand knowledge, again I apologize.

A few more experienced officals than I, seem to be more

comfortable staying on one side of the court, so game

game management is a difficult task during these

circumstances.

In hind-site I should have called a T on the coach, but

they were in their new stadium, it was their tournament,

and my partner with ten years experience obviously did

not see a problem. I really like this guy, and I called him

when I was driving home. He was eating with his

daughters in the hospitality room, and he apologized for

what happened, but I told him that I did not expect an

apology from him for the action of others.

I never try to acknoledge the crowd, so I probably

would have had a difficult time trying to figure out who

was cursing me in a packed gym.

Finally, I do appreciate all the input, and I will try to

do a better job with the knowledge I have gained. Thank

you so much for the support, and again I wish you all a

very Safe and Wonderful Holiday!
__________________
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance"
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 06:13am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignats75 View Post
I disagree. I am not a fan of political correctness, but this is just wrong. The Texas High School Athletic Association (not the officials Association) needs to know the situation there so that sanctions can be made to correct an absolutely heinous situation. TASO cannot be expected to orchestrate a boycott. Thats just fantasy. Specific and serious action needs to be taken against that school community. If the bylaws of the THSAA is anything like the OHSAA here in Ohio, they are the only ones with the muscle to affect change there.

Forget the mistakes made by a young and inexperienced official, they do not mitigate the culpability of the athletic administration of an entire school that allows this type of behavior. The school should be suspended from all interscholastic activity until a proactive and corrective action is instituted. I am truly disturbed to read this.
What exactly is wrong?

I never said that TASO should orchestrate a boycott. In my local area, there is a wreck league that many people have said that they will no longer work. But there has been no official stance from our assigning group that the group as a whole is boycotting. Instead, a large number of officials from the top half of our association have just said, "I'm not available" for those games. And this is not fantasy - it is real life, and it works!

You're confusing a an association-wide boycott with a bunch of officials saying that they're unavailable for certain games, often individually even before they "talk to each other".

Are you saying that all of this school's sports should be halted because of the basketball coach?
__________________
Pope Francis
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coach Attacked bigsig Softball 5 Thu Oct 25, 2007 03:50pm
Umpire attacked Carl Childress Baseball 36 Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:29am
Attacked Official. JRutledge Basketball 22 Wed Jan 14, 2004 04:35pm
Ump attacked saturday..... chris s Softball 6 Wed May 14, 2003 10:49am
ump attacked.... chris s Baseball 2 Wed May 14, 2003 10:10am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:04am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1