Unusual Situation - Did we get it right?

[Nevadaref]

Perfect.

You nailed it.

[BillyMac]

3) Penalized when they occur, after ten minute time limit. The infraction occurs when the scorer is advised to add to or change the scorebook. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball has become live, it is too late to penalize. A maximum of one technical foul per team regardless of the number of infractions for 2a, 3a, 3b, 3c, 4a:
b) A team shall not require the scorer to change a team member, or player, number in the scorebook (with exception), after the ten minute time limit. Team technical foul. If there is no request for change, or if a team member does not become a player, thus avoiding the change, there is no penalty.

[Ignats75]

And even better, they're both charged to the HCs, so hee-hee-hee they both have to sit.

[jevaque]

I thought i read in the case a while back that there is a situation before the initial toss to start the game, that a situation where you have a single tech. foul on both teams, both teams shoot 2 shots for the technicals, and then start the game with a jump ball??????

[jevaque]

neither coach would be charged a technical foul in this case.

[Ignats75]

MY bad. You are right, I was thinking about the illegla uniform rule.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jevaque

I thought i read in the case a while back that there is a situation before the initial toss to start the game, that a situation where you have a single tech. foul on both teams, both teams shoot 2 shots for the technicals, and then start the game with a jump ball??????

That would be the case if the offenses didn't occur simultaneously. In this case each team had a number problem with a starter. The book needs to be changed when the starter takes the court to begin the game, so the infractions occur at the same time.

[jevaque]

true, but is the techs didnt happen simultaneously then there wouldnt be a jump ball, say that team A received the second tech. then team B would get the throw in at half court opp the table, AP arrow to team A.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jevaque

true, but is the techs didnt happen simultaneously then there wouldnt be a jump ball, say that team A received the second tech. then team B would get the throw in at half court opp the table, AP arrow to team A.

Correct. Note that the NCAA level is different due to resuming at the POI on most single technical fouls. NCAA would still conduct a jump ball.

[kwv001]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That would be the case if the offenses didn't occur simultaneously.

That was what I struggled with - was this really a simultaneous situation. The rule says the infraction is penalized when it occurs but doesn't really define "occurs". Does it "occur" when it is discovered? Did it "occur" 10 minutes prior to game time when I checked and signed the book? In this case the visiting team was introduced and the scorer was instructed to change their error. Then 2 minutes later, the home team was introduced and the scorer was instructed to change their error. If they weren't ruled simultaneous, the technicals would have been enforced in the order they occured, which would have resulted in two shots for each team and then the visiting team getting the ball. I decided to treat the entire 10 minute pre-game time as the same point in time. I would have done the same thing if one error was discovered 7 minutes prior to game time and one was discovered during introductions. Your comment about the book really needing to be changed when they entered the game and since they were starters, that was simultaneous helps me resolve this issue in my mind. Thanks!

Now a different twist. Let's assume neither player was a starter. In this case the error wouldn't have been discovered until they entered the game, and provided they didn't enter the game at the same time, each technical would have resulted in two shots plus possession. In this case the exact same error would have been penalized differently. I guess it really does come down to when the error(s) are discovered.

[derwil]

Yep - timing is everything.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by kwv001

That was what I struggled with - was this really a simultaneous situation. ...snip.... Your comment about the book really needing to be changed when they entered the game and since they were starters, that was simultaneous helps me resolve this issue in my mind. Thanks!

Glad to be of help.

Originally Posted by kwv001

Now a different twist. Let's assume neither player was a starter. In this case the error wouldn't have been discovered until they entered the game, and provided they didn't enter the game at the same time, each technical would have resulted in two shots plus possession. In this case the exact same error would have been penalized differently. I guess it really does come down to when the error(s) are discovered.

You've got it.