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Old Tue Dec 16, 2008, 12:03am
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Another T or No T situation

GV game and I am in the stands after completing my game. Three person crew working two closely matched teams and the home team has seen its lead in the 4th quarter evaporate from 10pts to 5pts.

On an end-line throw-in for the visitors and in the vistors FC, center official (across the court from the team benches) calls a pushing foul on the visitors shortly after the ball becomes live, but before the throw-in is completed. Visitors coach becomes visibly upset with the call and starts a rant at the calling official. He does not use profanty or make it personal, he is just upset with the call. Coach then calls a full time-out and spends the entire 60 seconds staring at the calling official who is now on the blocks at the far end of the court. He never even looks at his team, but just keeps up the drop dead stare. As the time-out is ending, new trail gets with the coach and tells him the call is not going to change so lets just play and get by it. ( I later learn the crew has pre-gamed as much tolorance as possible for the coaches and not to go looking for trouble.)

Game continues and visitors eventully win by 3.

In the officials room after the game, the official who made the foul call and was the object of the stare-down is upset that neither of his partners T'ed the coach for the obvious stare down, and I get a call from one of the partners after the game for my take on it, because he knows I had the best view from the stands.

I told him, in my opinion, the coach made himself look like an #ss to everybody in the stands who knew anything about basketball and he didn't completely earn the T because he wasn't personal, persistant, or profane in voice once the initial rant was over. He just looked like a little bully trying to intimidate someone, looking stupid, and giving up a time-out in a close game to do it.

I also told him I would present the senerio to you guys for your opinions. I know it would mean more if you were there, but would an obvious stare-down such as this cause you to give the automatic T?
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Last edited by ranjo; Tue Dec 16, 2008 at 12:06am.
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Old Tue Dec 16, 2008, 12:18am
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I do not assess a technical foul here. Seriously, you're asking if you can T up a coach for looking at you funny. I tend to have a short fuse when it comes to keeping coaches under control, but even I can't throw down here.

IMO, kudos to the new trail for going to the coach and suggesting he lose the attitude--that is exactly how the situation should have been dealt with.
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Old Tue Dec 16, 2008, 12:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbeardedbryan View Post
I do not assess a technical foul here. Seriously, you're asking if you can T up a coach for looking at you funny. I tend to have a short fuse when it comes to keeping coaches under control, but even I can't throw down here.

IMO, kudos to the new trail for going to the coach and suggesting he lose the attitude--that is exactly how the situation should have been dealt with.
Think how much more spectacular it would have been if the partner had done this DURING the time-out staredown, instead of waiting for the time-out to end!
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Old Tue Dec 16, 2008, 12:37am
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The staree could blown the coach a kiss.

I had it happen once - smiled and waved at the coach. He probably thought I was stupid but he turned back to his players and started coaching again.
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Old Tue Dec 16, 2008, 12:41am
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Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
Think how much more spectacular it would have been if the partner had done this DURING the time-out staredown, instead of waiting for the time-out to end!
^^^^^^^^^
My thoughts exactly
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Old Tue Dec 16, 2008, 01:04am
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Whack.
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Old Tue Dec 16, 2008, 01:11am
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No way you T there. Get a thicker skin or you won't last long. Also to complain that his partners didn't do his dirty work for him is pretty funny.

Staring never hurts anyone, unless you let it affect you.
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Old Tue Dec 16, 2008, 01:20am
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Since it's the holiday season... give the gift that keeps on giving (or something like that)...

When it doubt, whack!
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Old Tue Dec 16, 2008, 07:43am
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You could apply a version of the "Meese Gambit": if the coach didn't deserve this particular T, he probably did something recently that deserved one and didn't get it.
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Old Tue Dec 16, 2008, 08:43am
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This is a high school game and in your pre-game meeting with the coaches and captains you told them you expected good sportsmanship throughout the evening. No way that is good sportsmanship and sets a bad example for high school kids-- technical foul after just a few seconds of staring. Easy decision as far as I'm concerned.
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Old Tue Dec 16, 2008, 09:08am
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I recall several years ago an official (Ron Garretson I think) in an NBA game calling a T on a player for exactly this reason. I could hear the official saying the player was trying to intimidate him.
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Old Tue Dec 16, 2008, 09:47am
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Personally, if you don't T the initial rant, the stare doesn't get the T either.

Furthermore, if you can't take care of business yourself, don't blame your partners for not doing it. Sounds to me like this was his T to get, not his partners'.
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Old Tue Dec 16, 2008, 09:57am
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There is a middle ground here. One of the other officials could walk over and get the coach back into his huddle. Of course, by walking over there, it's pretty hard to whack him because it looks like you're baiting him at that point, but it's something I would be willing to risk if I knew the coach and if I had no intention of whacking him for the stare anyway.

I have also, when the target of "the stare" found a reason to turn and walk from the block and tie a shoe or get a towel to clean up an imaginary wet spot on the floor.

I have whacked in this situation. I do think it's unsportsmanlike and is showing up the official, but I don't necessarily think the technical is the best course of action for the game.

As for the official being angry at his partners -- if he wanted a technical called HE should've called it! This isn't like a second technical where it's nice if a different official gets it. This is more like expecting a partner to do your dirty work for you.

Last edited by Rich; Tue Dec 16, 2008 at 09:59am.
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Old Tue Dec 16, 2008, 11:00am
Ref Ump Welsch
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I don't have a technical in this situation. There are coaches around these parts who do the same, they'll stare at the officials while berating their team in the huddle. My high school coach did the same, and he never got a T for it. It's a thick skin thing; if it isn't verbally directed at me, my partner, or someone from the other team, I'm going to ignore it and do a redirect like the partner in the OP did if possible.
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Old Tue Dec 16, 2008, 12:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch View Post
I don't have a technical in this situation. There are coaches around these parts who do the same, they'll stare at the officials while berating their team in the huddle. My high school coach did the same, and he never got a T for it. It's a thick skin thing; if it isn't verbally directed at me, my partner, or someone from the other team, I'm going to ignore it and do a redirect like the partner in the OP did if possible.
So if he gives the two arm wave at you or another such gesture you'll ignore cause it wasn't verbal?
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