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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 11:58am
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Scoring Issue

GV game the other night. We are about to put the ball in play to start the second quarter and visitor HC calls me over to the table to discuss a scoring issue. Apparently the scoreboard operator had just taken two points off the board for his team b/c the official scorer told him she did not have it in the book. Visitor book had the two points, scorer obviously had it before he took it off, and incidentally this is a clock where they have player scoring on an auxillary board (different operator) and THAT board had the two pts also. The home team was not keeping their own book. Based on the fact that the scoreboard operator had the pts as well as the visitor book (and the auxillary board), I determined that the official book was likely wrong and put the pts back on. Home coach did not seem to have a big problem with this after I explained to him what happened, but at halftime one of my partners said he didn't think I should have put it back b/c "the official book is the official book no matter what". In this case given the corroborative evidence to the contrary I disagreed. Thoughts? Did I handle correctly?
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 12:00pm
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According to the rules, the official book is just that. It's the official book.

The scoreboard is not the official book. The visitor's book is not the official book.

You should have asked the official scorer if he/she was positive he/she was not missing two points. If he/she was positive (even given all the evidence to the contrary), you have to go with the book.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 12:02pm
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Personally, I'd have done the same thing. Official book is not "no matter what."
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 12:03pm
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Originally Posted by fiasco View Post
According to the rules, the official book is just that. It's the official book.

The scoreboard is not the official book. The visitor's book is not the official book.

You should have asked the official scorer if he/she was positive he/she was not missing two points. If he/she was positive (even given all the evidence to the contrary), you have to go with the book.
Should have added that this was the first night for the official scorer (ever) and she did not appear sure of anything, she was actually pretty frazzled.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 12:03pm
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Originally Posted by slow whistle View Post
GV game the other night. We are about to put the ball in play to start the second quarter and visitor HC calls me over to the table to discuss a scoring issue. Apparently the scoreboard operator had just taken two points off the board for his team b/c the official scorer told him she did not have it in the book. Visitor book had the two points, scorer obviously had it before he took it off, and incidentally this is a clock where they have player scoring on an auxillary board (different operator) and THAT board had the two pts also. The home team was not keeping their own book. Based on the fact that the scoreboard operator had the pts as well as the visitor book (and the auxillary board), I determined that the official book was likely wrong and put the pts back on. Home coach did not seem to have a big problem with this after I explained to him what happened, but at halftime one of my partners said he didn't think I should have put it back b/c "the official book is the official book no matter what". In this case given the corroborative evidence to the contrary I disagreed. Thoughts? Did I handle correctly?
So who was the official scorer? And what relation were they to the home team?
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 12:05pm
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Originally Posted by slow whistle View Post
Thoughts? Did I handle correctly?
I think you did that very nicely.
Good call.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 12:05pm
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Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
So who was the official scorer? And what relation were they to the home team?
The official scorer was an employee of the home team school.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 12:16pm
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Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
So who was the official scorer? And what relation were they to the home team?
That's my question. In your experience is there usually three books? The 'official', home and visitor books?! In my experience, I have not seen that, unless you count the electronic book (ie play-by-play software)

All D1 college games used an electronic book (and many, if not all, other levels of college). I have not encountered this in Iowa high school games but used to work for a company that provided this service in Kentucky. Could this software be used to help resolve this issue as well? Or would this be a no-no, like video replay?

-Josh
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 12:16pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Personally, I'd have done the same thing. Official book is not "no matter what."
It's the official book if you don't have "knowledge which permits [you] to decide otherwise."

The original post didn't lay out the inexperience of the keeper of the official scorebook, so that does change things.

But, the mere fact that two other people have a different score than the official scorekeeper isn't enough—in and of itself—to convince me that she is wrong.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 12:17pm
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Home book is official book. Sounds like your scorekeeper was most likely at fault.
I would look for a quick resolution of the issue. Look to visiting book for the discrepancy.
Maybe they have V23 scoring a 2 point basket that is not in the book for Home Book.

I want to get it right. I also want to resolve it quickly.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 12:20pm
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When I have scoring discrepancies, my first step is to ask the official book keeper if there is a possibility they are wrong. That, 99 times out of 100, causes them to compare their book with the visitor's team book as well as asking the scoreboard operator.

If, after talking it over with the other two, the official book keeper is still positive they have the numbers right, and I have no other definite knowledge, I'm going with the official book.

I'm not going to let the fact that two "unofficial" books (the visitor and the scorekeeper) have a different score distract from the fact that you have an official book for a reason.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 12:28pm
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Originally Posted by jdmara View Post
All D1 college games used an electronic book (and many, if not all, other levels of college).
What's an "electronic book"? Do you mean that they use a computer as the official book? Or do you mean a laptop to track stats? If you mean the latter, then I agree these are becoming very common at my D3 sites.

I've never seen a computer used as the official scorebook. When there is a computer to track stats, NCAA rules state that it can be used to clear up confusion. If necessary, I would use it in situations such as:

what was the time on the clock when the last basket was scored;
who was credited with the last basket;
who received the last AP throw-in?
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 12:32pm
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Why, is there something magical about being named "scorer" that makes her somehow more competent than two other sources combined?
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 12:32pm
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I guess when it all comes down to it, the official book is official!!!!
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 12:34pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Why, is there something magical about being named "scorer" that makes her somehow more competent than two other sources combined?
Why is there something magical about you putting your fist up in the air and blowing your whistle and awarding two free throws to Team A? What makes you more competent than the two coaches sitting on the sideline?
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