T or no T! what do you think?

[mick]

Originally Posted by chrs_schuster

Player A1 grabs ball and slams it about 10 feet in air!

Although the other points made to whack the player are sound, a ball bouncing 10' in the air is hardly a slam.
My automatics would be, at least, above the rim.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Snaqs:

Read BadZebra' post between my two posts. He hits the nail on the proverbial head.

MTD, Sr.

Gotcha!
FWIW, I'd probably have called the T. My original post in this thread didn't take into account that the kid had to actually get the ball after the whistle.

I still say it's not "automatic" when a kid bounces the ball a little hard (and it doesn't take much force to get it to bounce 10 feet high).

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Snaqs:

Read BadZebra' post between my two posts. He hits the nail on the proverbial head.

MTD, Sr.

So, why was your post needed, then?

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I still say it's not "automatic" when a kid bounces the ball a little hard (and it doesn't take much force to get it to bounce 10 feet high).

So what's your standard? 10 ft. is as high as the rim...plenty high enough for me to pull the trigger. My rule is if it's done out of frustration or anger and I have to look up to see how high it's going...then it's gonna be addressed.

[Adam]

I don't have an objective standard; it's completely subjective.

[Camron Rust]

Depends on how high, how, and why.

Self frustration (follows airball or ball trown-away) will allow a little more tolerance. Who is the action directed at?

How high matters...no specific distance. 4' = nothing 40' = T. Everything else in between is judgement.

Ball ends up in his hands vs. player going to get ball makes a difference.


The whole picture has to be considered to get the right answer. A ball going 10' up dosn't get my attention unless it is directed at me or my partner.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Don't you just love Newton's Theory of Gravity?

It was a theory back in the olden days when you went to school. Now it's a scientific law.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., what was your favorite subject in school: Huntin', Gruntin', or Cave Painting?

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I don't have an objective standard; it's completely subjective.

Best response. There is no clean way out of this situation. You have to decide what is best for you. A terse scolding of the player if he is a good kid, he will have learned his lesson. A malcontent doing he same thing, probably a T. Either way, it's all up to the individual. Based on the orignal post, sounds like he sleeps OK with it.

[Scooby]

Judgement call. There are lots of good refs on this board and it seems to come down to about 60% T and 40% no T. So I do not see a definitive answer. You have to decide.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

Best response. There is no clean way out of this situation. You have to decide what is best for you. A terse scolding of the player if he is a good kid, he will have learned his lesson. A malcontent doing he same thing, probably a T. Either way, it's all up to the individual. Based on the orignal post, sounds like he sleeps OK with it.

Correct, IMO. I've been known to remind a player that he really doesn't want to make me have to decide whether or not it's a T.

[cdaref]

Originally Posted by chrs_schuster

I almost T but think to myself, do I want to possibly end game on T!

I remember as a younger official asking this of a senior official. He said to me that if I am worrying about how *I* am ending the game then I am already thinking about the situation in the wrong way. *I* dont end the game, the players do. I'm not responsible for what they do. I'm responsible for enforcing the rules while using appropriate judgment. He said, judge the act and if possible the intent (looking at you, showing you up, acting in anger, etc), but always allow for the appropriate passion of a tight and excellent athletic contest. I dont like the fact that he went over to get the ball to spike it. And if it was a big spike, that sounds like a whack. But the criteria in my mind are what he did and why, not whether or not *I* am worried about how *I* and the game. Being in those situations and making those tough calls is what they pay us to do and what we train to do. I'm not criticizing, just sharing some wisdom that helped me.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It was a theory back in the olden days when you went to school. Now it's a scientific law.

Not so: general relativity is the law of the land regarding gravity. Now, if only we could find a way to make it play nice with quantum mechanics...

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

You have to decide what is best for you.

You have to decide what is best for the game!

If you are worried about what is best for you ... you are in the wrong business.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

You have to decide what is best for the game!

If you are worried about what is best for you ... you are in the wrong business.

Once again we play word parsing. You are 100% correct. My point was you have to be OK with whatever you do.

"Best for the game" can be argued forever. I generally opt for people skills over excessively rigid rulebook enforcement. Many here would disagree with that. I am genuinely disappointed when I have to give a technical foul for unsportsmanlike conduct, because I always try and use my people skills to prevent it before it is necessary. But I don't judge others. You have to live with and embrace your own style.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

You have to decide what is best for you.

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

You have to decide what is best for the game!

If you are worried about what is best for you ... you are in the wrong business.

Dude, I think you're jumping when it's not necessary. What he's saying is that some officials will take care of this without a T, others will go with the T. There is a certain element of personal comfort level involved here, similar to how you deal with coaches.